No new roster updates until July 30th.
-
who has actually gone up to diamond and back to gold? im curious to see the #s because I really don't think it's too many..
-
@MYGUNSAREBIG_XBL
Off the top of my head Stanton is one this year -
@poksey_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@silverbullet3519 said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@pscrabro_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
2019 was probably his best statistical season and walking the 2nd most in the majors that year help with his % lines. He wasn't top ten that season in hits, doubles, triples, R.B.I.s , HR, runs, or R.B.I.... just saying
For what it's worth he was 5th in HR with 45 and was 1,2,2 in OPB, Slg % and OPS respectively. Also had a near 1:1 K:BB ratio with far more walks and fewer Ks than most of the guys in the top 10 of the categories you named. Fewer games and ABs than those guys as well, but that could also be factored as a negative. All in all I would say he had a very good year.
ETA: the number of games is what factors more into accumulation stats that you named like hits, HRs, etc.... on a per AB basis I'm not sure there's very many guys in the league I'd rather have than Trout... just gotta stay healthy.
He walks which helps his sabermetric numbers like ops. His eye is elite.
I never understood why people used to downplay walks so much. Mickey Morandini slaps a single with no one on base, and that's somehow inherently better than drawing a walk. The result is the exact same.
So he walks a lot.
He gets on base a lot. Do I care if it is a walk or a hit?Peeeete...?
You do not.
-
@poksey_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@silverbullet3519 said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@pscrabro_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
2019 was probably his best statistical season and walking the 2nd most in the majors that year help with his % lines. He wasn't top ten that season in hits, doubles, triples, R.B.I.s , HR, runs, or R.B.I.... just saying
For what it's worth he was 5th in HR with 45 and was 1,2,2 in OPB, Slg % and OPS respectively. Also had a near 1:1 K:BB ratio with far more walks and fewer Ks than most of the guys in the top 10 of the categories you named. Fewer games and ABs than those guys as well, but that could also be factored as a negative. All in all I would say he had a very good year.
ETA: the number of games is what factors more into accumulation stats that you named like hits, HRs, etc.... on a per AB basis I'm not sure there's very many guys in the league I'd rather have than Trout... just gotta stay healthy.
He walks which helps his sabermetric numbers like ops. His eye is elite.
I never understood why people used to downplay walks so much. Mickey Morandini slaps a single with no one on base, and that's somehow inherently better than drawing a walk. The result is the exact same.
So he walks a lot.
He gets on base a lot. Do I care if it is a walk or a hit?Not downplaying walks, I am saying they inflate sabermetric numbers. Walking is a good thing. I just don't subscribe to using 100 percent analytics when it comes to rating players.
-
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@poksey_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@silverbullet3519 said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@pscrabro_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
2019 was probably his best statistical season and walking the 2nd most in the majors that year help with his % lines. He wasn't top ten that season in hits, doubles, triples, R.B.I.s , HR, runs, or R.B.I.... just saying
For what it's worth he was 5th in HR with 45 and was 1,2,2 in OPB, Slg % and OPS respectively. Also had a near 1:1 K:BB ratio with far more walks and fewer Ks than most of the guys in the top 10 of the categories you named. Fewer games and ABs than those guys as well, but that could also be factored as a negative. All in all I would say he had a very good year.
ETA: the number of games is what factors more into accumulation stats that you named like hits, HRs, etc.... on a per AB basis I'm not sure there's very many guys in the league I'd rather have than Trout... just gotta stay healthy.
He walks which helps his sabermetric numbers like ops. His eye is elite.
I never understood why people used to downplay walks so much. Mickey Morandini slaps a single with no one on base, and that's somehow inherently better than drawing a walk. The result is the exact same.
So he walks a lot.
He gets on base a lot. Do I care if it is a walk or a hit?Not downplaying walks, I am saying they inflate sabermetric numbers. Walking is a good thing. I just don't subscribe to using 100 percent analytics when it comes to rating players.
By saying they "inflate" numbers, you are downplaying walks...
-
It's embarrassing sometimes how far people will go just to not say "I was wrong". You can say you don't subscribe to analytics only but I'll take actual stats over potential any day. Someone could have great stuff as a pitcher and actually have better pitches but they can't put it together in an actual game, same goes for a hitter. You cod have a great swing but if you can't calm down when you get to the majors and actually get the bat on the ball it means nothing. You can't rely 100% on either one but stats are definitely more important
-
@poksey_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@poksey_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@silverbullet3519 said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@pscrabro_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
2019 was probably his best statistical season and walking the 2nd most in the majors that year help with his % lines. He wasn't top ten that season in hits, doubles, triples, R.B.I.s , HR, runs, or R.B.I.... just saying
For what it's worth he was 5th in HR with 45 and was 1,2,2 in OPB, Slg % and OPS respectively. Also had a near 1:1 K:BB ratio with far more walks and fewer Ks than most of the guys in the top 10 of the categories you named. Fewer games and ABs than those guys as well, but that could also be factored as a negative. All in all I would say he had a very good year.
ETA: the number of games is what factors more into accumulation stats that you named like hits, HRs, etc.... on a per AB basis I'm not sure there's very many guys in the league I'd rather have than Trout... just gotta stay healthy.
He walks which helps his sabermetric numbers like ops. His eye is elite.
I never understood why people used to downplay walks so much. Mickey Morandini slaps a single with no one on base, and that's somehow inherently better than drawing a walk. The result is the exact same.
So he walks a lot.
He gets on base a lot. Do I care if it is a walk or a hit?Not downplaying walks, I am saying they inflate sabermetric numbers. Walking is a good thing. I just don't subscribe to using 100 percent analytics when it comes to rating players.
By saying they "inflate" numbers, you are downplaying walks...
No i am saying they inflate sabermetric numbers. A walk in a big situation isn't always something that is good. If a person has 40 more hits and drives in 30 more while scoring roughly the same number then i would rather have the guy with more hits than the guy who walked 40 more times.
-
@bwheel1977_PSN
Walks effect OBP but not average, slugging, or anything else really so what sabremetric numbers are you referring to that these walks help so much? -
@raider52morrison said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
They need to do monthly roster updates. That way we would stop seeing guys go diamond and two weeks later back to gold. Now everyone gets to go diamond. IMO diamond should only be for the elite players @ each position. I.E. Trout, Acuna, Tatis, deGrom etc etc. They should cap it @ like 3 diamonds per position. Diamonds should be RARE IMO. Or they need to make a new tier of diamonds like black diamonds that would be rare like pulling Trout.
There are 14 levels of diamonds. Just changing 90+ to a different shape does nothing. It should go back to 90+ is diamond, gold 80-89. They did it this way so they could give away "diamonds" and still make the 90+ guys hard to acquire. It is a tactic to increase stub purchases.
-
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
It's embarrassing sometimes how far people will go just to not say "I was wrong". You can say you don't subscribe to analytics only but I'll take actual stats over potential any day. Someone could have great stuff as a pitcher and actually have better pitches but they can't put it together in an actual game, same goes for a hitter. You cod have a great swing but if you can't calm down when you get to the majors and actually get the bat on the ball it means nothing. You can't rely 100% on either one but stats are definitely more important
What does this mean? I never said stats. I said sabermetrics.
Take for example 2016. Mookie betts had 214 hits compared to 173 for trout. He beat him in every major category minus walks and OB. Trout's walks inflated the sabermetric numbers but not the real numbers ie hr, rbis,avgs,defensive stats,hits,doubles,triples. Trout actually beat betts by one in runs. Why does walks matter in this case? Analytics is a basis and can give good information but it's not the end all be all when comparing players. Deciding what numbers matter is up to each indvidual. I choose the major ones.
-
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@poksey_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@poksey_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@silverbullet3519 said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@pscrabro_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
2019 was probably his best statistical season and walking the 2nd most in the majors that year help with his % lines. He wasn't top ten that season in hits, doubles, triples, R.B.I.s , HR, runs, or R.B.I.... just saying
For what it's worth he was 5th in HR with 45 and was 1,2,2 in OPB, Slg % and OPS respectively. Also had a near 1:1 K:BB ratio with far more walks and fewer Ks than most of the guys in the top 10 of the categories you named. Fewer games and ABs than those guys as well, but that could also be factored as a negative. All in all I would say he had a very good year.
ETA: the number of games is what factors more into accumulation stats that you named like hits, HRs, etc.... on a per AB basis I'm not sure there's very many guys in the league I'd rather have than Trout... just gotta stay healthy.
He walks which helps his sabermetric numbers like ops. His eye is elite.
I never understood why people used to downplay walks so much. Mickey Morandini slaps a single with no one on base, and that's somehow inherently better than drawing a walk. The result is the exact same.
So he walks a lot.
He gets on base a lot. Do I care if it is a walk or a hit?Not downplaying walks, I am saying they inflate sabermetric numbers. Walking is a good thing. I just don't subscribe to using 100 percent analytics when it comes to rating players.
By saying they "inflate" numbers, you are downplaying walks...
No i am saying they inflate sabermetric numbers. A walk in a big situation isn't always something that is good. If a person has 40 more hits and drives in 30 more while scoring roughly the same number then i would rather have the guy with more hits than the guy who walked 40 more times.
You cant inflate a numerical equation. OBP is a statistic based on a formula. Walks are a factor in OBP, the same as hits.
What you are now talking about is more along RISP, and just moving the goalposts again.
What you are describing is situational. A guy hits a 3 run HR in a 7-3 loss. Do we now subtract those totals from his HR, OBP, OPS, SLG %, RBI, Runs, etc? Do we forget about the earned runs accredited to that pitcher that gave up the HR? In the end, it didnt effect the result of the game. Let's just discount all losing players offensive stats then, as they only "inflate their sabermetric numbers" too.
-
@bwheel1977_PSN
What exactly do you think sabermetrics is? -
@raider52morrison said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
They need to do monthly roster updates. That way we would stop seeing guys go diamond and two weeks later back to gold. Now everyone gets to go diamond. IMO diamond should only be for the elite players @ each position. I.E. Trout, Acuna, Tatis, deGrom etc etc. They should cap it @ like 3 diamonds per position. Diamonds should be RARE IMO. Or they need to make a new tier of diamonds like black diamonds that would be rare like pulling Trout.
29 players have gone from gold to diamond
only 2 have went back down to gold (stanton and karinchak)
21 of those new Diamonds were in the all-star game.
I think the rate they are going at is fine. the last update only had 3 players go up to diamond.The tier comment is basically already in place.. 90+ are a lot harder to pull then the 85-89. There are only 8 of them right now
-
I disagree w a lot of people in this thread. It is already SO HARD to get Diamond live series guys. Because the market makes them hundreds of thousands of stubs to complete collections because we all know when you pull a Diamond out of a pack, it’s not trout or acuna, it’s like 85 ovr yelich or somebody you could buy for 5K stubs. That’s the issue with making a new Diamond set of cards. Those cards would easily surpass the issues already set forth with the current diamonds and collecting
-
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
What exactly do you think sabermetrics is?all the extra stuff that ie ops,war, risp....
-
@bwheel1977_PSN
And you think someone with more numerical hits but a lower percentage in every category is better because big number better? I don't understand your reasoning at all -
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
What exactly do you think sabermetrics is?all the extra stuff that ie ops,war, risp....
RISP = batting average with runners in scoring position. I dont think that is a sabermetric statistic as it has been around forever.
-
@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@pscrabro_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
2019 was probably his best statistical season and walking the 2nd most in the majors that year help with his % lines. He wasn't top ten that season in hits, doubles, triples, R.B.I.s , HR, runs, or R.B.I.... just saying
You’re wrong again. Do you actually look up anything or just try to bluff and hope no one checks your statements?
2019 he had 45 homers, good for 5th in MLB and 2nd in the AL.
You have zero credibility. Nothing you say matters regarding this topic now.
Your right he was 5th in Homer's run 3 seasons ago. I got off track because my initial argument was he hasn't done anything since 2019 season.
I don't need credibility... I'm not trying to become an analyst for ESPN... just having a friendly debate that if your only gonna have a handful of LS diamonds... they should be given for current performance and not what you did 3 seasons ago. Everybody can have their own opinion and mine is still that the guys performing everyday currently should get the upgrades if a guy that has barely played is the best card in the current performances series of this game. -
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
What exactly do you think sabermetrics is?all the extra stuff that ie ops,war, risp....
War is the only thing of those 3 that is considered sabermetrics. RISP is batting average with runners in scoring position. On base percentage isn't sabermetrics, slugging percentage isn't sabermetrics, so when you add the 2 together(OPS) it is? That makes no sense man
-
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
What exactly do you think sabermetrics is?Beat me to it.
facepalm
-
A admin locked this topic on
