Lack of Left handed hitting catchers
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@the_dragon1912 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
If Piazza and Pudge played 1B instead of Catcher neither of them would be in the HOF
Stats of the average 1B HOFer:
AVG: .300
OBP: .370
SLG: .505
HR: 300Piazza's stats:
AVG: .308
OBP: .377
SLG: .545
HR: 427 -
@SaveFarris said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
@the_dragon1912 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
If Piazza and Pudge played 1B instead of Catcher neither of them would be in the HOF
Stats of the average 1B HOFer:
AVG: .300
OBP: .370
SLG: .505
HR: 300Piazza's stats:
AVG: .308
OBP: .377
SLG: .545
HR: 427I hear you, but Piazza and Pudge were both linked to steroids, and that was my main argument. They aren't in the hall if they weren't catchers. I just don't like how HOF voters can decide which steroid users are worthy of the hall and which aren't, even though they weren't an illegal substance when they used them, well they were but testing wasn't around then
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@the_dragon1912 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
@SaveFarris said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
@the_dragon1912 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
If Piazza and Pudge played 1B instead of Catcher neither of them would be in the HOF
Stats of the average 1B HOFer:
AVG: .300
OBP: .370
SLG: .505
HR: 300Piazza's stats:
AVG: .308
OBP: .377
SLG: .545
HR: 427I hear you, but Piazza and Pudge were both linked to steroids, and that was my main argument. They aren't in the hall if they weren't catchers. I just don't like how HOF voters can decide which steroid users are worthy of the hall and which aren't, even though they weren't an illegal substance when they used them, well they were but testing wasn't around then
Bagwell did get in at 1b, even with the steroid allegations. Biggio at 2b as well, although there were less allegations with him.
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@the_dragon1912 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
According to a fan graphs article the top 25 left handed hitting catchers of all time are
1.Yogi Berra
2. Bill Dickey
3. Mickey Cochran's
4. Darrell Porter
5. Tim McCarver
6.Tom Haller
7. John Roseboro
8.Darren Daulton
9. Mike Sciosia
10. Smoky Burgess
11. Ed Bailey
12.Johnny Edwards
13. Terry Kennedy
14. Joe Mauer
15. BJ Surhoff
16. Ernie Whitt
17. AJ Pierzynski
18. Ivey Wingo
19. Milt May
20. Johnny Bassler
21. Mike Lavallierre
22. Earl Smith
23.Clay Dalrymple
24. Rich German
25. Darrin FletcherOutside of Berra, Mauer, and Pierzynski, how many players from this list could realistically be in the game? Lefty hitting catchers is an extremely weak group of players as you can tell. McCarver and Sciocia are much more known for their broadcasting/managing careers. If I were SDS I wouldn't waste money on most of these guys' rights either
I wonder if there are many guys that were just mediocre that would enjoy being in the game just for the heck of it and not want any compensation? I'd love to have more "legends" even if they aren't perennially all stars. You could have these guys available near the beginning of the game.
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@the_dragon1912 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
@hegone44 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
@the_dragon1912 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
@hegone44 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
The topic of this thread is why baseball folks have been saying that the most draftable profile in baseball, after LHP, is LHH Catcher. The fact that you're clamoring for Brian F'ing McCann is evidence enough that there haven't really been a lot of great catchers period, let alone ones who hit left-handed. The only one in my lifetime is Joe Mauer.
And the only other ones I can think of are McCann, Pierzynski, and Alex Avila since the mid 2000s. A lot of people hype up Mauer to be a lot better than he really was just because he was truly the only elite catcher in that era until Posey and Yadi came along. If Piazza and Pudge played 1B instead of Catcher neither of them would be in the HOF because of their alleged steroid use IMO. That's how weak the catcher position has been throughout the years
Mauer was a 3 time batting champ, and an MVP, before he started getting injured...and he could move, and had a cannon. He was far better than Posey or Molina, and I'd argue he was on a trajectory to be mentioned with the likes of Bench, Berra, and Pudge if it weren't for the injuries.
Based on that logic you must consider LeMahieu and Altuve among the top 2B of all time yes? Both have had very similar careers to Mauers(even if you completely disregard Altuve's 2017 season), at an equally weak position throughout history
Quite the strawman. I don't see where he said Mauer was an all time great. Looks to me he said he was on the trajectory. He may still believe that but I didn't get it from that specific post.
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@NCStateHokie said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
@the_dragon1912 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
According to a fan graphs article the top 25 left handed hitting catchers of all time are
1.Yogi Berra
2. Bill Dickey
3. Mickey Cochran's
4. Darrell Porter
5. Tim McCarver
6.Tom Haller
7. John Roseboro
8.Darren Daulton
9. Mike Sciosia
10. Smoky Burgess
11. Ed Bailey
12.Johnny Edwards
13. Terry Kennedy
14. Joe Mauer
15. BJ Surhoff
16. Ernie Whitt
17. AJ Pierzynski
18. Ivey Wingo
19. Milt May
20. Johnny Bassler
21. Mike Lavallierre
22. Earl Smith
23.Clay Dalrymple
24. Rich German
25. Darrin FletcherOutside of Berra, Mauer, and Pierzynski, how many players from this list could realistically be in the game? Lefty hitting catchers is an extremely weak group of players as you can tell. McCarver and Sciocia are much more known for their broadcasting/managing careers. If I were SDS I wouldn't waste money on most of these guys' rights either
I wonder if there are many guys that were just mediocre that would enjoy being in the game just for the heck of it and not want any compensation? I'd love to have more "legends" even if they aren't perennially all stars. You could have these guys available near the beginning of the game.
I'm sure there are players like that, but it's funny you bring that up because that's actually why Charles Barkley isn't in 2k. A while back someone asked why he wasn't in the game and his answer was the exact opposite of the selfish reasons you would expect. He said that players like him, MJ, Kareem, etc. we're getting paid big bucks and he didn't like how 2k treated the smaller name guys (there are a lot of mid 2000s Bench players in 2k that are getting paid a minuscule amount to be in the game compared to the all stars and legends)
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And just looked at baseball reference and Mauer is top 7 in catchers for batting average and OBP, top 8 for hits, and top 9 for WAR. The fact he also managed 15 years at that position is pretty impressive (and lucky too). He is better than I thought he was.
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@SaveFarris said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
@the_dragon1912 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
If Piazza and Pudge played 1B instead of Catcher neither of them would be in the HOF
Stats of the average 1B HOFer:
AVG: .300
OBP: .370
SLG: .505
HR: 300Piazza's stats:
AVG: .308
OBP: .377
SLG: .545
HR: 427You'd think too his numbers might be slightly higher of he was strictly 1b since he wouldn't have the wear and tear on his body.
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They just need to bring back that post season Schwarber card
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@the_dragon1912 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
@hegone44 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
@the_dragon1912 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
@hegone44 said in Lack of Left handed hitting catchers:
The topic of this thread is why baseball folks have been saying that the most draftable profile in baseball, after LHP, is LHH Catcher. The fact that you're clamoring for Brian F'ing McCann is evidence enough that there haven't really been a lot of great catchers period, let alone ones who hit left-handed. The only one in my lifetime is Joe Mauer.
And the only other ones I can think of are McCann, Pierzynski, and Alex Avila since the mid 2000s. A lot of people hype up Mauer to be a lot better than he really was just because he was truly the only elite catcher in that era until Posey and Yadi came along. If Piazza and Pudge played 1B instead of Catcher neither of them would be in the HOF because of their alleged steroid use IMO. That's how weak the catcher position has been throughout the years
Mauer was a 3 time batting champ, and an MVP, before he started getting injured...and he could move, and had a cannon. He was far better than Posey or Molina, and I'd argue he was on a trajectory to be mentioned with the likes of Bench, Berra, and Pudge if it weren't for the injuries.
Based on that logic you must consider LeMahieu and Altuve among the top 2B of all time yes? Both have had very similar careers to Mauers(even if you completely disregard Altuve's 2017 season), at an equally weak position throughout history
I said he was on a hall of fame trajectory through 2010, and that's not even really debatable. At that time, Mauer had done the following:
- 3 batting titles.
- 1 MVP
- .327 career batting average
- 3 gold gloves, with a career CS% of .357, which is about 8% above league average...and led the league twice.
If Mauer had stayed healthy, there's really no debating the fact that he'd be headed to the hall of fame because he'd have 3000 hits, a .320+ career average (which would be 2nd all time among catchers).
Also, yes if Altuve gets himself back on track and maintains his current 162 game averages for the next 5-7 years then he will most definitely be one of the greatest 2B ever. DJ's peaking a little late.
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