The high sinker.
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@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@Vipersneak said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@TheHungryHole said in The high sinker.:
@skepple15 said in The high sinker.:
With the velocity upgrades on sinkers I think they're going to be super OP
yep as they should be - suckers need to learn to sit high and pretty otherwise you're dusted
The problem is some pitchers have very unhittiable sinkers. I’m fine with those guys. Any pitcher who had a sinker last year could dominant with it. That I have a problem with.
Isn't that what everyone wanted last year? Even common players having perfect pitches as long as input was good? While I disagree with that, I heard that [censored] over and over. With that logic, why wouldn't any pitcher with a sinker dominate? It will likely be worse in '20.
Lol, I saw this too. I hope this game keeps striving for realism and ignores the ones that want it to be all about user input. Long live sim nation.
The game will die eventually if it’s not competitive - it’s a game. Not a simulation. You can play the computer on easy offline. Online gameplay should never be simulation style. Why then even bother having a live opponent?
OOTP sounds like it's more his speed
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My opinion...
It shouldn’t really matter if the high sinker is OP, or if the low changeup is OP, or if the middle fastball is OP, or...
We all know that SOMETHING will be OP, but who cares? Whatever it is, it will be OP for everyone else as well.
The key (to this year, just like it was in each previous year) is to figure out what’s OP, and adapt.
The players that learn how to adapt quickest will benefit the most.
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@TroyF said in The high sinker.:
At the end of the day, the sinker is a POWER pitch. Because of its name, people assume it's only a pitch thrown at the knees. That's not the way it is used in real life at all. The sinker is thrown just like a fastball, all over the strike zone. Up, down, in, out. When Arrieta won the Cy Young award, 48% of his sinkers were waist high or higher.
People talk like the sinker is a change up that needs to be thrown low in the zone to be effective. That isn't the case at all. I'm not saying you should be able to live up in the zone with it if you repeat it over and over, but you shouldn't live anywhere with ANY pitch over and over.
Kind of true, kind of not. In real life, the movement of the pitch is dependent on its release point and trajectory. Because of Arrieta's super high release point, he's able to achieve sinker movement higher in the zone than most. He specifically adjusted his delivery in order to be able to achieve this, and it's an incredibly rare thing in baseball.
Theres no reason that 4'5" Sergio Romo should be able to do it, too.
For the sake of generalization, high sinkers should just become high, flat two seamers.
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@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@Vipersneak said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@TheHungryHole said in The high sinker.:
@skepple15 said in The high sinker.:
With the velocity upgrades on sinkers I think they're going to be super OP
yep as they should be - suckers need to learn to sit high and pretty otherwise you're dusted
The problem is some pitchers have very unhittiable sinkers. I’m fine with those guys. Any pitcher who had a sinker last year could dominant with it. That I have a problem with.
Isn't that what everyone wanted last year? Even common players having perfect pitches as long as input was good? While I disagree with that, I heard that [censored] over and over. With that logic, why wouldn't any pitcher with a sinker dominate? It will likely be worse in '20.
Lol, I saw this too. I hope this game keeps striving for realism and ignores the ones that want it to be all about user input. Long live sim nation.
The game will die eventually if it’s not competitive - it’s a game. Not a simulation. You can play the computer on easy offline. Online gameplay should never be simulation style. Why then even bother having a live opponent?
I think you misunderstand me when I say sim. What I mean by that is I want the players that we are controlling represented accurately and play to their unique abilities. What will kill the game is if every player feels the same bc user input is all that matters.
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@skepple15 said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@Vipersneak said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@TheHungryHole said in The high sinker.:
@skepple15 said in The high sinker.:
With the velocity upgrades on sinkers I think they're going to be super OP
yep as they should be - suckers need to learn to sit high and pretty otherwise you're dusted
The problem is some pitchers have very unhittiable sinkers. I’m fine with those guys. Any pitcher who had a sinker last year could dominant with it. That I have a problem with.
Isn't that what everyone wanted last year? Even common players having perfect pitches as long as input was good? While I disagree with that, I heard that [censored] over and over. With that logic, why wouldn't any pitcher with a sinker dominate? It will likely be worse in '20.
Lol, I saw this too. I hope this game keeps striving for realism and ignores the ones that want it to be all about user input. Long live sim nation.
The game will die eventually if it’s not competitive - it’s a game. Not a simulation. You can play the computer on easy offline. Online gameplay should never be simulation style. Why then even bother having a live opponent?
OOTP sounds like it's more his speed
I’d rather lose 100 games from skill then win 10 games from simulation. The heart racing competitiveness isn’t there for me if I feel like I’m not responsible for my outcome.
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@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@skepple15 said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@Vipersneak said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@TheHungryHole said in The high sinker.:
@skepple15 said in The high sinker.:
With the velocity upgrades on sinkers I think they're going to be super OP
yep as they should be - suckers need to learn to sit high and pretty otherwise you're dusted
The problem is some pitchers have very unhittiable sinkers. I’m fine with those guys. Any pitcher who had a sinker last year could dominant with it. That I have a problem with.
Isn't that what everyone wanted last year? Even common players having perfect pitches as long as input was good? While I disagree with that, I heard that [censored] over and over. With that logic, why wouldn't any pitcher with a sinker dominate? It will likely be worse in '20.
Lol, I saw this too. I hope this game keeps striving for realism and ignores the ones that want it to be all about user input. Long live sim nation.
The game will die eventually if it’s not competitive - it’s a game. Not a simulation. You can play the computer on easy offline. Online gameplay should never be simulation style. Why then even bother having a live opponent?
OOTP sounds like it's more his speed
I’d rather lose 100 games from skill then win 10 games from simulation. The heart racing competitiveness isn’t there for me if I feel like I’m not responsible for my outcome.
The game isn’t meant to represent your baseball abilities though. It’s meant to represent the players in the mlb past and present.
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Eno Sarris on The Athletic last year had an article on the lower % of 2-seams and sinkers being thrown because of the launch angle craze. Yet it’s an effective pitch in the game. Go figure
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@skepple15 said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@Vipersneak said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@TheHungryHole said in The high sinker.:
@skepple15 said in The high sinker.:
With the velocity upgrades on sinkers I think they're going to be super OP
yep as they should be - suckers need to learn to sit high and pretty otherwise you're dusted
The problem is some pitchers have very unhittiable sinkers. I’m fine with those guys. Any pitcher who had a sinker last year could dominant with it. That I have a problem with.
Isn't that what everyone wanted last year? Even common players having perfect pitches as long as input was good? While I disagree with that, I heard that [censored] over and over. With that logic, why wouldn't any pitcher with a sinker dominate? It will likely be worse in '20.
Lol, I saw this too. I hope this game keeps striving for realism and ignores the ones that want it to be all about user input. Long live sim nation.
The game will die eventually if it’s not competitive - it’s a game. Not a simulation. You can play the computer on easy offline. Online gameplay should never be simulation style. Why then even bother having a live opponent?
OOTP sounds like it's more his speed
I’d rather lose 100 games from skill then win 10 games from simulation. The heart racing competitiveness isn’t there for me if I feel like I’m not responsible for my outcome.
The game isn’t meant to represent your baseball abilities though. It’s meant to represent the players in the mlb past and present.
Online it’s meant to represent HEAD TO HEAD skill. Not the players ability. Like I said. The game is very deep. No reason to jump online if you are looking for an accurate representation of cards regardless of your ability. This is just an underhanded way of people wanting to have the h2h experience but not take the time to overcome a steep learning curve. Whats the reason for playing online if not to compete?? If you aren’t looking to compete DONT PLAY ONLINE!
What you’re saying basically is.
“I want to compete online and win. But I don’t want someone to be able to be better then me I just want to have the feeling of winning without actually having anything to do with it”
That’s that everyone gets a trophy mentality
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I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
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@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@skepple15 said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@Vipersneak said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@TheHungryHole said in The high sinker.:
@skepple15 said in The high sinker.:
With the velocity upgrades on sinkers I think they're going to be super OP
yep as they should be - suckers need to learn to sit high and pretty otherwise you're dusted
The problem is some pitchers have very unhittiable sinkers. I’m fine with those guys. Any pitcher who had a sinker last year could dominant with it. That I have a problem with.
Isn't that what everyone wanted last year? Even common players having perfect pitches as long as input was good? While I disagree with that, I heard that [censored] over and over. With that logic, why wouldn't any pitcher with a sinker dominate? It will likely be worse in '20.
Lol, I saw this too. I hope this game keeps striving for realism and ignores the ones that want it to be all about user input. Long live sim nation.
The game will die eventually if it’s not competitive - it’s a game. Not a simulation. You can play the computer on easy offline. Online gameplay should never be simulation style. Why then even bother having a live opponent?
OOTP sounds like it's more his speed
I’d rather lose 100 games from skill then win 10 games from simulation. The heart racing competitiveness isn’t there for me if I feel like I’m not responsible for my outcome.
The game isn’t meant to represent your baseball abilities though. It’s meant to represent the players in the mlb past and present.
Online it’s meant to represent HEAD TO HEAD skill. Not the players ability. Like I said. The game is very deep. No reason to jump online if you are looking for an accurate representation of cards regardless of your ability. This is just an underhanded way of people wanting to have the h2h experience but not take the time to overcome a steep learning curve. Whats the reason for playing online if not to compete?? If you aren’t looking to compete DONT PLAY ONLINE!
What you’re saying basically is.
“I want to compete online and win. But I don’t want someone to be able to be better then me I just want to have the feeling of winning without actually having anything to do with it”
That’s that everyone gets a trophy mentality
Don't bother arguing with that guy, he's always on that "realistic blah blah thing" on every thread. Better to just ignore him.
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
Not necessarily. I think it should be ONLINE about a 85/15 split. 85% user skill and 15% attributes. Or even 90/10
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
So a newbie with SS Kershaw should beat a hardcore with LS 83 gold P every time by your logic?
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@yankblan said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
So a newbie with SS Kershaw should beat a hardcore with LS 83 gold P every time by your logic?
If he chooses the right pitches to throw at the right time and location, then more times than not he should put up a kershaw like performance. User input should be based on your decision making and baseball knowledge of players abilities. Obviously if the user knows nothing about baseball and throws every pitch down the pipe then he should get destroyed.
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@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
Not necessarily. I think it should be ONLINE about a 85/15 split. 85% user skill and 15% attributes. Or even 90/10
That would not be an accurate representation of the sport of baseball and the players that play. I want realism, you want arcade style.
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
Not necessarily. I think it should be ONLINE about a 85/15 split. 85% user skill and 15% attributes. Or even 90/10
That would not be an accurate representation of the sport of baseball and the players that play. I want realism, you want arcade style.
What you want is. To compete at a higher level then your skill allows.
I want to be as good as guys like Mitch and skepple and pitchingrebel too. So I go into pitching practice, and hitting practice, and
Request friendlies and league invites from these top tier players and get absolutely SMACKED. And then when you do that a lot...you start facing players you used to be similar to and you SMACK them...Then hopefully eventually I’ll able to be at that level. With practice and focus.
But you know what I don’t want?? A handout. Give me my reward for my input. But don’t give me a reward to make me feel equal.
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@yankblan said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
So a newbie with SS Kershaw should beat a hardcore with LS 83 gold P every time by your logic?
If he chooses the right pitches to throw at the right time and location, then more times than not he should put up a kershaw like performance. User input should be based on your decision making and baseball knowledge of players abilities. Obviously if the user knows nothing about baseball and throws every pitch down the pipe then he should get destroyed.
Wow
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@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
Not necessarily. I think it should be ONLINE about a 85/15 split. 85% user skill and 15% attributes. Or even 90/10
That would not be an accurate representation of the sport of baseball and the players that play. I want realism, you want arcade style.
What you want is. To compete at a higher level then your skill allows.
I want to be as good as guys like Mitch and skepple and pitchingrebel too. So I go into pitching practice, and hitting practice, and
Request friendlies and league invites from these top tier players and get absolutely SMACKED. And then when you do that a lot...you start facing players you used to be similar to and you SMACK them...Then hopefully eventually I’ll able to be at that level. With practice and focus.
But you know what I don’t want?? A handout. Give me my reward for my input. But don’t give me a reward to make me feel equal.
I want a realistic game, that’s what I want. I don’t want to hit.400 with a player that only hit .250 for a career average. I don’t want a pitcher that is barely in the majors to have a sub 1.00 era. I want realistic gameplay, I want real baseball. You want the users ability to time a meter and put a circle on the ball to matter more. The latter has nothing to do with baseball. You like arcade games, that’s fine, I don’t have a problem with you. I like realistic games, we have different tastes.
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
Not necessarily. I think it should be ONLINE about a 85/15 split. 85% user skill and 15% attributes. Or even 90/10
That would not be an accurate representation of the sport of baseball and the players that play. I want realism, you want arcade style.
What you want is. To compete at a higher level then your skill allows.
I want to be as good as guys like Mitch and skepple and pitchingrebel too. So I go into pitching practice, and hitting practice, and
Request friendlies and league invites from these top tier players and get absolutely SMACKED. And then when you do that a lot...you start facing players you used to be similar to and you SMACK them...Then hopefully eventually I’ll able to be at that level. With practice and focus.
But you know what I don’t want?? A handout. Give me my reward for my input. But don’t give me a reward to make me feel equal.
I want a realistic game, that’s what I want. I don’t want to hit.400 with a player that only hit .250 for a career average. I don’t want a pitcher that is barely in the majors to have a sub 1.00 era. I want realistic gameplay, I want real baseball. You want the users ability to time a meter and put a circle on the ball to matter more. The latter has nothing to do with baseball. You like arcade games, that’s fine, I don’t have a problem with you. I like realistic games, we have different tastes.
But user skill is how real players become great players, so that is realism.
I think both stats and skill should matter, the higher your player's stats, the easier it should be to get perfect/perfect.
In H2H, skill will matter more than stats, because you are playing a real person, just like skill matters more in real baseball.
In reality, Kershaw doesn't win games based off his previous stats.
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@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
Not necessarily. I think it should be ONLINE about a 85/15 split. 85% user skill and 15% attributes. Or even 90/10
That would not be an accurate representation of the sport of baseball and the players that play. I want realism, you want arcade style.
What you want is. To compete at a higher level then your skill allows.
I want to be as good as guys like Mitch and skepple and pitchingrebel too. So I go into pitching practice, and hitting practice, and
Request friendlies and league invites from these top tier players and get absolutely SMACKED. And then when you do that a lot...you start facing players you used to be similar to and you SMACK them...Then hopefully eventually I’ll able to be at that level. With practice and focus.
But you know what I don’t want?? A handout. Give me my reward for my input. But don’t give me a reward to make me feel equal.
I want a realistic game, that’s what I want. I don’t want to hit.400 with a player that only hit .250 for a career average. I don’t want a pitcher that is barely in the majors to have a sub 1.00 era. I want realistic gameplay, I want real baseball. You want the users ability to time a meter and put a circle on the ball to matter more. The latter has nothing to do with baseball. You like arcade games, that’s fine, I don’t have a problem with you. I like realistic games, we have different tastes.
But user skill is how real players become great players, so that is realism.
I think both stats and skill should matter, the higher your player's stats, the easier it should be to get perfect/perfect.
In H2H, skill will matter more than stats, because you are playing a real person, just like skill matters more in real baseball.
In reality, Kershaw doesn't win games based off his previous stats.
Your right, kershaw plays off his individual abilities. All I want is for that to be accurately represented in the game. I should never hit .400 with players that can’t sniff .300 in real life just bc I’m great at user input.
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
Not necessarily. I think it should be ONLINE about a 85/15 split. 85% user skill and 15% attributes. Or even 90/10
That would not be an accurate representation of the sport of baseball and the players that play. I want realism, you want arcade style.
What you want is. To compete at a higher level then your skill allows.
I want to be as good as guys like Mitch and skepple and pitchingrebel too. So I go into pitching practice, and hitting practice, and
Request friendlies and league invites from these top tier players and get absolutely SMACKED. And then when you do that a lot...you start facing players you used to be similar to and you SMACK them...Then hopefully eventually I’ll able to be at that level. With practice and focus.
But you know what I don’t want?? A handout. Give me my reward for my input. But don’t give me a reward to make me feel equal.
I want a realistic game, that’s what I want. I don’t want to hit.400 with a player that only hit .250 for a career average. I don’t want a pitcher that is barely in the majors to have a sub 1.00 era. I want realistic gameplay, I want real baseball. You want the users ability to time a meter and put a circle on the ball to matter more. The latter has nothing to do with baseball. You like arcade games, that’s fine, I don’t have a problem with you. I like realistic games, we have different tastes.
But user skill is how real players become great players, so that is realism.
I think both stats and skill should matter, the higher your player's stats, the easier it should be to get perfect/perfect.
In H2H, skill will matter more than stats, because you are playing a real person, just like skill matters more in real baseball.
In reality, Kershaw doesn't win games based off his previous stats.
Your right, kershaw plays off his individual abilities. All I want is for that to be accurately represented in the game. I should never hit .400 with players that can’t sniff .300 in real life just bc I’m great at user input.
Why not? Lots of players that hit .300 in real life, had games where they hit over .400, some had entire months.
Robbie Alomar, a career. 300 hitter, hit .480 in the '93 WS.
John Olerud, a career .295 hitter, hit over .350 in two full seasons.
