Flipping tips...
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@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
Checkout Diamond stadiums.
I made over 490K flipping stadiums this year (at an average of 237 per). But I stopped about a month or so ago when they started hiding them in Conquest maps and took them down to quicksell levels.
(Jeter) was the Michael Jordan of baseball
Er... no.
Jeter was the Manu Ginobli of baseball. On a lot of great teams, won a lot of rings, and a fine player in his own right. But anyone attempting to confer GOAT status would rightfully need their head examined. For most of his career, he wasn't even the best SS on his own team.
Jordan 5th all time NBA pts. Jeter 6th all time MLB hits. Both elevated their teams to the next level. I realize it's kinda apples and oranges, and Jeter had his flaws. But for all those with the Jeter hate and making arguments that I see against him, I'd contend that they never really watched him play day-in, day-out. (And clutch rating would be about 175).
While watching a player live can provide great insight, it also opens the person up to potential bias no? I wouldn't say you needed to watch Jeter to understand him, but if you grew up watching him, you have a slightly biased standpoint.
I still maintain he is both the most overrated AND underrated of all time. You are definitely overrating him (at least imo, which obv doesn't mean anything), and the other guy is underrating him.
Absolutely, I am. But that's kind of the point, and the reason I manipulate stats as others do (even a 6 foot person can drown in 1 foot of water). I'm hearing a lot of Jeter hate this year, though I don't understand it. Was he the best defensive SS of all-time? Of course not. Was he the best offensive SS of all time? Of course not. He isn't even in the top-5 best Yankees of all-time. But should we limit greatness to only those conversations? It would be a pretty short list if that was the case. Ozzie Smith sucked, right, how many HRs did he hit? Edgar Martinez is in the HOF - was incredible defensively if I remember correctly. Heck, Tom Glavine wasn't even in the top 2 pitchers on his team. Limiting the conversation to only what you want to look at is pointless. Anybody who thinks his contributions should be dismissed for such simple reasons isn't looking at the whole picture.
Just my 2 cents.
The thing is, though, I don't think anyone is dismissing it as much are you're making it out to be, Essentially everyone thinks Jeter is a hall of farmer. I don't think most people would say Jeter was only "good"
The argument that the other guy made was that Jeter wasn't GOAT status, which is a fair argument. He's great, but even as you describe, he's not a top 5 Yankee, so why would calling him the GOAT make sense? Not calling him GOAT isn't the same as saying he's not great.
You are out here talking about Jeter and Michael Jordan (Who most basketball fans would call the GOAT in basketball). Those two comparisons don't make sense,
What defines GOAT? Rings? Yogi Berra. HRs? Barry Bonds. Hits? Pete Rose. Pitching greatness over a short period of time? Sandy Koufax. Long period of time? Cy Young. Player who had more timely moments that anyone I've ever seen that helped his team be successful?
All subjective. Just as making the argument that an argument can actually be made.
Here's one. Name the only player in MLB history with 3000 hits and led his team to 5 World Series Championships.
There's a GOAT conversation if you're willing to look.
First of all he didn't "lead" his team, that's a narrative you are pushing. Was he a key part of those teams? Absolutely. But "lead" is away to strong. If Cal Ripken Jr was on those Yankee teams, he could have just as easily had those same 3000 hits and 5 WS rings.
GOAT means greatest of all time. If you have to come up with arbitrary stats like "well his team did this with him on it", it isn't even a conversation
Greatest of all time means the greatest baseball player of all time, that's it, case closed.
There can't be two greatest of all-time players, or three, because that's impossible, because that would mean one or two of those players actually weren't, because someone was greater.
So unless you want to claim Jeter is the greatest baseball player of all time, (And by your admission, he isn't even in the top 5 Yankees), he isn't the GOAT because GREATEST OF ALL TIME, means there is no baseball player better then him.
So are you saying Derek Jeter is a better player then Babe Ruth, or Willie Mays, etc etc?
IF NOT, he is not the GOAT. -
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
Checkout Diamond stadiums.
I made over 490K flipping stadiums this year (at an average of 237 per). But I stopped about a month or so ago when they started hiding them in Conquest maps and took them down to quicksell levels.
(Jeter) was the Michael Jordan of baseball
Er... no.
Jeter was the Manu Ginobli of baseball. On a lot of great teams, won a lot of rings, and a fine player in his own right. But anyone attempting to confer GOAT status would rightfully need their head examined. For most of his career, he wasn't even the best SS on his own team.
Jordan 5th all time NBA pts. Jeter 6th all time MLB hits. Both elevated their teams to the next level. I realize it's kinda apples and oranges, and Jeter had his flaws. But for all those with the Jeter hate and making arguments that I see against him, I'd contend that they never really watched him play day-in, day-out. (And clutch rating would be about 175).
While watching a player live can provide great insight, it also opens the person up to potential bias no? I wouldn't say you needed to watch Jeter to understand him, but if you grew up watching him, you have a slightly biased standpoint.
I still maintain he is both the most overrated AND underrated of all time. You are definitely overrating him (at least imo, which obv doesn't mean anything), and the other guy is underrating him.
Absolutely, I am. But that's kind of the point, and the reason I manipulate stats as others do (even a 6 foot person can drown in 1 foot of water). I'm hearing a lot of Jeter hate this year, though I don't understand it. Was he the best defensive SS of all-time? Of course not. Was he the best offensive SS of all time? Of course not. He isn't even in the top-5 best Yankees of all-time. But should we limit greatness to only those conversations? It would be a pretty short list if that was the case. Ozzie Smith sucked, right, how many HRs did he hit? Edgar Martinez is in the HOF - was incredible defensively if I remember correctly. Heck, Tom Glavine wasn't even in the top 2 pitchers on his team. Limiting the conversation to only what you want to look at is pointless. Anybody who thinks his contributions should be dismissed for such simple reasons isn't looking at the whole picture.
Just my 2 cents.
The thing is, though, I don't think anyone is dismissing it as much are you're making it out to be, Essentially everyone thinks Jeter is a hall of farmer. I don't think most people would say Jeter was only "good"
The argument that the other guy made was that Jeter wasn't GOAT status, which is a fair argument. He's great, but even as you describe, he's not a top 5 Yankee, so why would calling him the GOAT make sense? Not calling him GOAT isn't the same as saying he's not great.
You are out here talking about Jeter and Michael Jordan (Who most basketball fans would call the GOAT in basketball). Those two comparisons don't make sense,
What defines GOAT? Rings? Yogi Berra. HRs? Barry Bonds. Hits? Pete Rose. Pitching greatness over a short period of time? Sandy Koufax. Long period of time? Cy Young. Player who had more timely moments that anyone I've ever seen that helped his team be successful?
All subjective. Just as making the argument that an argument can actually be made.
Here's one. Name the only player in MLB history with 3000 hits and led his team to 5 World Series Championships.
There's a GOAT conversation if you're willing to look.
First of all he didn't "lead" his team, that's a narrative you are pushing. Was he a key part of those teams? Absolutely. But "lead" is away to strong. If Cal Ripken Jr was on those Yankee teams, he could have just as easily had those same 3000 hits and 5 WS rings.
GOAT means greatest of all time. If you have to come up with arbitrary stats like "well his team did this with him on it", it isn't even a conversation
Greatest of all time means the greatest baseball player of all time, that's it, case closed.
There can't be two greatest of all-time players, or three, because that's impossible, because that would mean one or two of those players actually weren't, because someone was greater.
So unless you want to claim Jeter is the greatest baseball player of all time, (And by your admission, he isn't even in the top 5 Yankees), he isn't the GOAT because GREATEST OF ALL TIME, means there is no baseball player better then him.
So are you saying Derek Jeter is a better player then Babe Ruth, or Willie Mays, etc etc?
IF NOT, he is not the GOAT.What defines GOAT?
-
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
Checkout Diamond stadiums.
I made over 490K flipping stadiums this year (at an average of 237 per). But I stopped about a month or so ago when they started hiding them in Conquest maps and took them down to quicksell levels.
(Jeter) was the Michael Jordan of baseball
Er... no.
Jeter was the Manu Ginobli of baseball. On a lot of great teams, won a lot of rings, and a fine player in his own right. But anyone attempting to confer GOAT status would rightfully need their head examined. For most of his career, he wasn't even the best SS on his own team.
Jordan 5th all time NBA pts. Jeter 6th all time MLB hits. Both elevated their teams to the next level. I realize it's kinda apples and oranges, and Jeter had his flaws. But for all those with the Jeter hate and making arguments that I see against him, I'd contend that they never really watched him play day-in, day-out. (And clutch rating would be about 175).
While watching a player live can provide great insight, it also opens the person up to potential bias no? I wouldn't say you needed to watch Jeter to understand him, but if you grew up watching him, you have a slightly biased standpoint.
I still maintain he is both the most overrated AND underrated of all time. You are definitely overrating him (at least imo, which obv doesn't mean anything), and the other guy is underrating him.
Absolutely, I am. But that's kind of the point, and the reason I manipulate stats as others do (even a 6 foot person can drown in 1 foot of water). I'm hearing a lot of Jeter hate this year, though I don't understand it. Was he the best defensive SS of all-time? Of course not. Was he the best offensive SS of all time? Of course not. He isn't even in the top-5 best Yankees of all-time. But should we limit greatness to only those conversations? It would be a pretty short list if that was the case. Ozzie Smith sucked, right, how many HRs did he hit? Edgar Martinez is in the HOF - was incredible defensively if I remember correctly. Heck, Tom Glavine wasn't even in the top 2 pitchers on his team. Limiting the conversation to only what you want to look at is pointless. Anybody who thinks his contributions should be dismissed for such simple reasons isn't looking at the whole picture.
Just my 2 cents.
The thing is, though, I don't think anyone is dismissing it as much are you're making it out to be, Essentially everyone thinks Jeter is a hall of farmer. I don't think most people would say Jeter was only "good"
The argument that the other guy made was that Jeter wasn't GOAT status, which is a fair argument. He's great, but even as you describe, he's not a top 5 Yankee, so why would calling him the GOAT make sense? Not calling him GOAT isn't the same as saying he's not great.
You are out here talking about Jeter and Michael Jordan (Who most basketball fans would call the GOAT in basketball). Those two comparisons don't make sense,
What defines GOAT? Rings? Yogi Berra. HRs? Barry Bonds. Hits? Pete Rose. Pitching greatness over a short period of time? Sandy Koufax. Long period of time? Cy Young. Player who had more timely moments that anyone I've ever seen that helped his team be successful?
All subjective. Just as making the argument that an argument can actually be made.
Here's one. Name the only player in MLB history with 3000 hits and led his team to 5 World Series Championships.
There's a GOAT conversation if you're willing to look.
First of all he didn't "lead" his team, that's a narrative you are pushing. Was he a key part of those teams? Absolutely. But "lead" is away to strong. If Cal Ripken Jr was on those Yankee teams, he could have just as easily had those same 3000 hits and 5 WS rings.
GOAT means greatest of all time. If you have to come up with arbitrary stats like "well his team did this with him on it", it isn't even a conversation
Greatest of all time means the greatest baseball player of all time, that's it, case closed.
There can't be two greatest of all-time players, or three, because that's impossible, because that would mean one or two of those players actually weren't, because someone was greater.
So unless you want to claim Jeter is the greatest baseball player of all time, (And by your admission, he isn't even in the top 5 Yankees), he isn't the GOAT because GREATEST OF ALL TIME, means there is no baseball player better then him.
So are you saying Derek Jeter is a better player then Babe Ruth, or Willie Mays, etc etc?
IF NOT, he is not the GOAT.What defines GOAT?
I just told you, the Greatest of all time. The best player to step onto a field
Now obviously that is a bit subjective, between valuing pitchers and hitters etc etc.
But do you think Derek Jeter is a better player than Babe Ruth or Willie Mays or Barry Bonds, etc?
If so, fine, claim him as the GOAT, otherwise, he isn't. -
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
Checkout Diamond stadiums.
I made over 490K flipping stadiums this year (at an average of 237 per). But I stopped about a month or so ago when they started hiding them in Conquest maps and took them down to quicksell levels.
(Jeter) was the Michael Jordan of baseball
Er... no.
Jeter was the Manu Ginobli of baseball. On a lot of great teams, won a lot of rings, and a fine player in his own right. But anyone attempting to confer GOAT status would rightfully need their head examined. For most of his career, he wasn't even the best SS on his own team.
Jordan 5th all time NBA pts. Jeter 6th all time MLB hits. Both elevated their teams to the next level. I realize it's kinda apples and oranges, and Jeter had his flaws. But for all those with the Jeter hate and making arguments that I see against him, I'd contend that they never really watched him play day-in, day-out. (And clutch rating would be about 175).
While watching a player live can provide great insight, it also opens the person up to potential bias no? I wouldn't say you needed to watch Jeter to understand him, but if you grew up watching him, you have a slightly biased standpoint.
I still maintain he is both the most overrated AND underrated of all time. You are definitely overrating him (at least imo, which obv doesn't mean anything), and the other guy is underrating him.
Absolutely, I am. But that's kind of the point, and the reason I manipulate stats as others do (even a 6 foot person can drown in 1 foot of water). I'm hearing a lot of Jeter hate this year, though I don't understand it. Was he the best defensive SS of all-time? Of course not. Was he the best offensive SS of all time? Of course not. He isn't even in the top-5 best Yankees of all-time. But should we limit greatness to only those conversations? It would be a pretty short list if that was the case. Ozzie Smith sucked, right, how many HRs did he hit? Edgar Martinez is in the HOF - was incredible defensively if I remember correctly. Heck, Tom Glavine wasn't even in the top 2 pitchers on his team. Limiting the conversation to only what you want to look at is pointless. Anybody who thinks his contributions should be dismissed for such simple reasons isn't looking at the whole picture.
Just my 2 cents.
The thing is, though, I don't think anyone is dismissing it as much are you're making it out to be, Essentially everyone thinks Jeter is a hall of farmer. I don't think most people would say Jeter was only "good"
The argument that the other guy made was that Jeter wasn't GOAT status, which is a fair argument. He's great, but even as you describe, he's not a top 5 Yankee, so why would calling him the GOAT make sense? Not calling him GOAT isn't the same as saying he's not great.
You are out here talking about Jeter and Michael Jordan (Who most basketball fans would call the GOAT in basketball). Those two comparisons don't make sense,
What defines GOAT? Rings? Yogi Berra. HRs? Barry Bonds. Hits? Pete Rose. Pitching greatness over a short period of time? Sandy Koufax. Long period of time? Cy Young. Player who had more timely moments that anyone I've ever seen that helped his team be successful?
All subjective. Just as making the argument that an argument can actually be made.
Here's one. Name the only player in MLB history with 3000 hits and led his team to 5 World Series Championships.
There's a GOAT conversation if you're willing to look.
First of all he didn't "lead" his team, that's a narrative you are pushing. Was he a key part of those teams? Absolutely. But "lead" is away to strong. If Cal Ripken Jr was on those Yankee teams, he could have just as easily had those same 3000 hits and 5 WS rings.
GOAT means greatest of all time. If you have to come up with arbitrary stats like "well his team did this with him on it", it isn't even a conversation
Greatest of all time means the greatest baseball player of all time, that's it, case closed.
There can't be two greatest of all-time players, or three, because that's impossible, because that would mean one or two of those players actually weren't, because someone was greater.
So unless you want to claim Jeter is the greatest baseball player of all time, (And by your admission, he isn't even in the top 5 Yankees), he isn't the GOAT because GREATEST OF ALL TIME, means there is no baseball player better then him.
So are you saying Derek Jeter is a better player then Babe Ruth, or Willie Mays, etc etc?
IF NOT, he is not the GOAT.What defines GOAT?
I just told you, the Greatest of all time. The best player to step onto a field
Now obviously that is a bit subjective, between valuing pitchers and hitters etc etc.
But do you think Derek Jeter is a better player than Babe Ruth or Willie Mays or Barry Bonds, etc?
If so, fine, claim him as the GOAT, otherwise, he isn't.Not trying to be difficult, completely respect your opinion (many times) on this forum. It's just not as cut and dry as many make it out to be, and Jeter could be part of any conversation. I'm not even really actually contending that he is the GOAT, but would would completely entertain it and not immediately dismiss it. He did achieve what nobody else did, and I watched incredible plays he made with my own eyes so much that I understand the argument. Subjective and bias? Sure. But I also know what I saw and the context of those situations, which is often lacking. (Like when folks say, SDS screwed me - no real context).
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@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
Checkout Diamond stadiums.
I made over 490K flipping stadiums this year (at an average of 237 per). But I stopped about a month or so ago when they started hiding them in Conquest maps and took them down to quicksell levels.
(Jeter) was the Michael Jordan of baseball
Er... no.
Jeter was the Manu Ginobli of baseball. On a lot of great teams, won a lot of rings, and a fine player in his own right. But anyone attempting to confer GOAT status would rightfully need their head examined. For most of his career, he wasn't even the best SS on his own team.
Jordan 5th all time NBA pts. Jeter 6th all time MLB hits. Both elevated their teams to the next level. I realize it's kinda apples and oranges, and Jeter had his flaws. But for all those with the Jeter hate and making arguments that I see against him, I'd contend that they never really watched him play day-in, day-out. (And clutch rating would be about 175).
While watching a player live can provide great insight, it also opens the person up to potential bias no? I wouldn't say you needed to watch Jeter to understand him, but if you grew up watching him, you have a slightly biased standpoint.
I still maintain he is both the most overrated AND underrated of all time. You are definitely overrating him (at least imo, which obv doesn't mean anything), and the other guy is underrating him.
Absolutely, I am. But that's kind of the point, and the reason I manipulate stats as others do (even a 6 foot person can drown in 1 foot of water). I'm hearing a lot of Jeter hate this year, though I don't understand it. Was he the best defensive SS of all-time? Of course not. Was he the best offensive SS of all time? Of course not. He isn't even in the top-5 best Yankees of all-time. But should we limit greatness to only those conversations? It would be a pretty short list if that was the case. Ozzie Smith sucked, right, how many HRs did he hit? Edgar Martinez is in the HOF - was incredible defensively if I remember correctly. Heck, Tom Glavine wasn't even in the top 2 pitchers on his team. Limiting the conversation to only what you want to look at is pointless. Anybody who thinks his contributions should be dismissed for such simple reasons isn't looking at the whole picture.
Just my 2 cents.
The thing is, though, I don't think anyone is dismissing it as much are you're making it out to be, Essentially everyone thinks Jeter is a hall of farmer. I don't think most people would say Jeter was only "good"
The argument that the other guy made was that Jeter wasn't GOAT status, which is a fair argument. He's great, but even as you describe, he's not a top 5 Yankee, so why would calling him the GOAT make sense? Not calling him GOAT isn't the same as saying he's not great.
You are out here talking about Jeter and Michael Jordan (Who most basketball fans would call the GOAT in basketball). Those two comparisons don't make sense,
What defines GOAT? Rings? Yogi Berra. HRs? Barry Bonds. Hits? Pete Rose. Pitching greatness over a short period of time? Sandy Koufax. Long period of time? Cy Young. Player who had more timely moments that anyone I've ever seen that helped his team be successful?
All subjective. Just as making the argument that an argument can actually be made.
Here's one. Name the only player in MLB history with 3000 hits and led his team to 5 World Series Championships.
There's a GOAT conversation if you're willing to look.
First of all he didn't "lead" his team, that's a narrative you are pushing. Was he a key part of those teams? Absolutely. But "lead" is away to strong. If Cal Ripken Jr was on those Yankee teams, he could have just as easily had those same 3000 hits and 5 WS rings.
GOAT means greatest of all time. If you have to come up with arbitrary stats like "well his team did this with him on it", it isn't even a conversation
Greatest of all time means the greatest baseball player of all time, that's it, case closed.
There can't be two greatest of all-time players, or three, because that's impossible, because that would mean one or two of those players actually weren't, because someone was greater.
So unless you want to claim Jeter is the greatest baseball player of all time, (And by your admission, he isn't even in the top 5 Yankees), he isn't the GOAT because GREATEST OF ALL TIME, means there is no baseball player better then him.
So are you saying Derek Jeter is a better player then Babe Ruth, or Willie Mays, etc etc?
IF NOT, he is not the GOAT.What defines GOAT?
I just told you, the Greatest of all time. The best player to step onto a field
Now obviously that is a bit subjective, between valuing pitchers and hitters etc etc.
But do you think Derek Jeter is a better player than Babe Ruth or Willie Mays or Barry Bonds, etc?
If so, fine, claim him as the GOAT, otherwise, he isn't.Not trying to be difficult, completely respect your opinion (many times) on this forum. It's just not as cut and dry as many make it out to be, and Jeter could be part of any conversation. I'm not even really actually not contending that he is the GOAT, but would would completely entertain it and not immediately dismiss it. He did achieve what nobody else did, and I watched incredible plays he made with my own eyes so much that I understand the argument. Subjective and bias? Sure. But I also know what I saw and the context of those situations, which is often lacking. (Like when folks say, SDS screwed me - no real context).
But again, there are 24 other players on that team that helped, IMO, team achievements cannot be considered when talking about GOAT status, because that is relying on factors other than the single-player.
As I said, I absolutely believe way to many people underrate Jeter just because the advanced stats he wasn't that great of a fielder, he is a GREAT player, elite even. But he isn't in the GOAT conversation unless you bring in factors that are outside of talking about Jeter alone.
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@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@eatyum said in Flipping tips...:
@Freddy_Sez said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
Checkout Diamond stadiums.
I made over 490K flipping stadiums this year (at an average of 237 per). But I stopped about a month or so ago when they started hiding them in Conquest maps and took them down to quicksell levels.
(Jeter) was the Michael Jordan of baseball
Er... no.
Jeter was the Manu Ginobli of baseball. On a lot of great teams, won a lot of rings, and a fine player in his own right. But anyone attempting to confer GOAT status would rightfully need their head examined. For most of his career, he wasn't even the best SS on his own team.
Jordan 5th all time NBA pts. Jeter 6th all time MLB hits. Both elevated their teams to the next level. I realize it's kinda apples and oranges, and Jeter had his flaws. But for all those with the Jeter hate and making arguments that I see against him, I'd contend that they never really watched him play day-in, day-out. (And clutch rating would be about 175).
While watching a player live can provide great insight, it also opens the person up to potential bias no? I wouldn't say you needed to watch Jeter to understand him, but if you grew up watching him, you have a slightly biased standpoint.
I still maintain he is both the most overrated AND underrated of all time. You are definitely overrating him (at least imo, which obv doesn't mean anything), and the other guy is underrating him.
Absolutely, I am. But that's kind of the point, and the reason I manipulate stats as others do (even a 6 foot person can drown in 1 foot of water). I'm hearing a lot of Jeter hate this year, though I don't understand it. Was he the best defensive SS of all-time? Of course not. Was he the best offensive SS of all time? Of course not. He isn't even in the top-5 best Yankees of all-time. But should we limit greatness to only those conversations? It would be a pretty short list if that was the case. Ozzie Smith sucked, right, how many HRs did he hit? Edgar Martinez is in the HOF - was incredible defensively if I remember correctly. Heck, Tom Glavine wasn't even in the top 2 pitchers on his team. Limiting the conversation to only what you want to look at is pointless. Anybody who thinks his contributions should be dismissed for such simple reasons isn't looking at the whole picture.
Just my 2 cents.
The thing is, though, I don't think anyone is dismissing it as much are you're making it out to be, Essentially everyone thinks Jeter is a hall of farmer. I don't think most people would say Jeter was only "good"
The argument that the other guy made was that Jeter wasn't GOAT status, which is a fair argument. He's great, but even as you describe, he's not a top 5 Yankee, so why would calling him the GOAT make sense? Not calling him GOAT isn't the same as saying he's not great.
You are out here talking about Jeter and Michael Jordan (Who most basketball fans would call the GOAT in basketball). Those two comparisons don't make sense,
What defines GOAT? Rings? Yogi Berra. HRs? Barry Bonds. Hits? Pete Rose. Pitching greatness over a short period of time? Sandy Koufax. Long period of time? Cy Young. Player who had more timely moments that anyone I've ever seen that helped his team be successful?
All subjective. Just as making the argument that an argument can actually be made.
Here's one. Name the only player in MLB history with 3000 hits and led his team to 5 World Series Championships.
There's a GOAT conversation if you're willing to look.
First of all he didn't "lead" his team, that's a narrative you are pushing. Was he a key part of those teams? Absolutely. But "lead" is away to strong. If Cal Ripken Jr was on those Yankee teams, he could have just as easily had those same 3000 hits and 5 WS rings.
GOAT means greatest of all time. If you have to come up with arbitrary stats like "well his team did this with him on it", it isn't even a conversation
Greatest of all time means the greatest baseball player of all time, that's it, case closed.
There can't be two greatest of all-time players, or three, because that's impossible, because that would mean one or two of those players actually weren't, because someone was greater.
So unless you want to claim Jeter is the greatest baseball player of all time, (And by your admission, he isn't even in the top 5 Yankees), he isn't the GOAT because GREATEST OF ALL TIME, means there is no baseball player better then him.
So are you saying Derek Jeter is a better player then Babe Ruth, or Willie Mays, etc etc?
IF NOT, he is not the GOAT.What defines GOAT?
I just told you, the Greatest of all time. The best player to step onto a field
Now obviously that is a bit subjective, between valuing pitchers and hitters etc etc.
But do you think Derek Jeter is a better player than Babe Ruth or Willie Mays or Barry Bonds, etc?
If so, fine, claim him as the GOAT, otherwise, he isn't.Not trying to be difficult, completely respect your opinion (many times) on this forum. It's just not as cut and dry as many make it out to be, and Jeter could be part of any conversation. I'm not even really actually not contending that he is the GOAT, but would would completely entertain it and not immediately dismiss it. He did achieve what nobody else did, and I watched incredible plays he made with my own eyes so much that I understand the argument. Subjective and bias? Sure. But I also know what I saw and the context of those situations, which is often lacking. (Like when folks say, SDS screwed me - no real context).
But again, there are 24 other players on that team that helped, IMO, team achievements cannot be considered when talking about GOAT status, because that is relying on factors other than the single-player.
As I said, I absolutely believe way to many people underrate Jeter just because the advanced stats he wasn't that great of a fielder, he is a GREAT player, elite even. But he isn't in the GOAT conversation unless you bring in factors that are outside of talking about Jeter alone.
Agree on 25 on a team. But that's kind of the point here, too. Not everybody always swung to hit over the shift. Some players are more than happy to advance that runner to third, and take no credit when that runner turns out to be the winning run. Some things the stats just can't measure, whether old school, sabr, WAR, or DRS. Sometimes the old scout just sees something. It's that something that Jeter had (an incredible amount of - his awareness of a situation was incredible).
I personally don't think he's the GOAT, but if somebody wants to make that argument based on the above - I'm listening. Give me the guy who wins over the stats any day. (But I'm a pain in the [censored] Yankee fan who expects a WS every year, lol).
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@Ikasnu said in Flipping tips...:
And like I said I am so sure it won't happen in 20 I'd put money down know that bet lol
the sheep just want to believe lol, SDS only gonna add one of those box office names a year
Don't be surprised if we eventually see Bonds, DiMaggio, AROD or McGwire but them be the big guys they show off and make you pay money to get due to the fandom around them and their legacies (enter steroid complaining even tho guys were using greenies and other drugs forever before the 2000s)
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@SaveFarris said in Flipping tips...:
Checkout Diamond stadiums.
I made over 490K flipping stadiums this year (at an average of 237 per). But I stopped about a month or so ago when they started hiding them in Conquest maps and took them down to quicksell levels.
(Jeter) was the Michael Jordan of baseball
Er... no.
Jeter was the Manu Ginobli of baseball. On a lot of great teams, won a lot of rings, and a fine player in his own right. But anyone attempting to confer GOAT status would rightfully need their head examined.
I'm referring to his popularity, he sold tickets. Jordan was on top of the NBA world and Jeter on top of Baseball
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If GOAT is defined by hits and hrs it wouldn't be Bonds and Rose,
It would be Aaron( which he arguably could be) when he retired Aaron had the most HR and one of only 2 to have more than 700, he also had 3800+ hits which was 2nd all time. -
@Ikasnu said in Flipping tips...:
I'm referring to his popularity, he sold tickets. Jordan was on top of the NBA world and Jeter on top of Baseball
Was he, though?
Can't seem to get my hands on historical All-Star balloting numbers at the moment (the best "comp" for player popularity). Maybe somebody with better Google-fu can help.
Anyway, while they were both still SS, ARod started the ASG over Jeter 4-1 (with Ripken and Nomar taking 1 year each). It's not until after ARod is forced out of position that he goes on a 7 out of 9 year starting run.
I don't see any evidence that Jeter is "the most popular MLB player of his era". And CERTAINLY not to the unquestioned extent of Jordan's importance to the NBA.
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He was never the best player in the league imo but having said that you still cannot deny Derek Jeter as being the face of baseball for the majority of his career. I not only think he was the most popular baseball player during his era, but also possibly all time with the exception of Babe Ruth.
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