RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?
-
It seems that there a billion examples of RNG influencing games that have been posted to this forum for the past many years. Many folks --- myself included --- have posted specific in-game examples of RNG determining outcomes. These seem reasonable enough.
What I don't understand is why absolutely zero proof of RNG has come out of SD Studios from current or past employees leaking emails, code, etc. to prove that: 1) RNG is baked into the game and 2) that the company does it to keep mediocre players around (like me) to buy stubs and help SD Studios make a profit. Although I am mediocre player, I don't fall into the trap of buying stubs, so SD Studios is not making a dime from me on in-game purchases.
Since it seems RNG has been around many years now, it seems someone from inside SD Studios would have come clean by now and produced documents, emails, video, code or some other evidence of what SD Studios is up to --- which we all intuitively feel now and again when playing the game.
So, as the old 1980s Wendy's commercial asked. . . .
. . . Where's the beef? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riH5EsGcmTw
-
It’s not that kind of thing at all. You’re talking about RNG as if it’s some clandestine black hat operation that requires all employees to swear a blood oath never to speak of such things. RNG is just a way of coding games like this, it’s not a state secret. What do you think all those stats are for on the cards? Just to look pretty? Every time you face off in an AB, either as a hitter or pitcher, the outcome is determined by a type of RNG (Random Number Generator). The stats on the card help you to come out in the right side of that dice roll. Prestige Mantle vs a common SP in BR? RNG likely to dictate in your favour based on stats. 99 Kluber vs a crappy common hitter? Even if he squares it up, you’ll probably get an out, because your stats are far superior. That’s what RNG is in MLB the Show, it’s a core part of the game and has been for years. It’s also a core part of most games in some way, shape or form, so what is there to “leak”? I think you need to understand the concept of RNG and it’s applications in many areas fully before you can understand why it’s not a closely guarded secret.
-
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
It’s not that kind of thing at all. You’re talking about RNG as if it’s some clandestine black hat operation that requires all employees to swear a blood oath never to speak of such things. RNG is just a way of coding games like this, it’s not a state secret. What do you think all those stats are for on the cards? Just to look pretty? Every time you face off in an AB, either as a hitter or pitcher, the outcome is determined by a type of RNG (Random Number Generator). The stats on the card help you to come out in the right side of that dice roll. Prestige Mantle vs a common SP in BR? RNG likely to dictate in your favour based on stats. 99 Kluber vs a crappy common hitter? Even if he squares it up, you’ll probably get an out, because your stats are far superior. That’s what RNG is in MLB the Show, it’s a core part of the game and has been for years. It’s also a core part of most games in some way, shape or form, so what is there to “leak”? I think you need to understand the concept of RNG and it’s applications in many areas fully before you can understand why it’s not a closely guarded secret.
But the community doesn’t want a random based game. We need a game where skills can matter more than randomness. They have [censored] the bed so far. They should obey.
-
Simple answer: non-disclosure agreements.
That and you generally don't go around discussing how your proprietary software is coded on public forums, at least not in much detail.
-
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
It’s not that kind of thing at all. You’re talking about RNG as if it’s some clandestine black hat operation that requires all employees to swear a blood oath never to speak of such things. RNG is just a way of coding games like this, it’s not a state secret. What do you think all those stats are for on the cards? Just to look pretty? Every time you face off in an AB, either as a hitter or pitcher, the outcome is determined by a type of RNG (Random Number Generator). The stats on the card help you to come out in the right side of that dice roll. Prestige Mantle vs a common SP in BR? RNG likely to dictate in your favour based on stats. 99 Kluber vs a crappy common hitter? Even if he squares it up, you’ll probably get an out, because your stats are far superior. That’s what RNG is in MLB the Show, it’s a core part of the game and has been for years. It’s also a core part of most games in some way, shape or form, so what is there to “leak”? I think you need to understand the concept of RNG and it’s applications in many areas fully before you can understand why it’s not a closely guarded secret.
But the community doesn’t want a random based game. We need a game where skills can matter more than randomness. They have [censored] the bed so far. They should obey.
Listen, in my opinion, as a highly dedicated MLB the Show player over the last few years who’s sunk a lot of time into the game, RNG in and of itself is not the issue. The game needs RNG to function on many levels, as I tried to explain above. THE RNG ONLY BECOMES AN ISSUE WHEN IT HAS MORE OF AN IMPACT ON IN GAME OUTCOMES THAN USER INPUT, WHICH HAS SLOWLY BECOME THE CASE OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, CULMINATING IN THIS YEARS GAME WHERE USER INPUT IS SECONDARY TO SIMULATION FACTORS.
Hope that’s clear to anyone from SDS reading this thread.
-
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
It’s not that kind of thing at all. You’re talking about RNG as if it’s some clandestine black hat operation that requires all employees to swear a blood oath never to speak of such things. RNG is just a way of coding games like this, it’s not a state secret. What do you think all those stats are for on the cards? Just to look pretty? Every time you face off in an AB, either as a hitter or pitcher, the outcome is determined by a type of RNG (Random Number Generator). The stats on the card help you to come out in the right side of that dice roll. Prestige Mantle vs a common SP in BR? RNG likely to dictate in your favour based on stats. 99 Kluber vs a crappy common hitter? Even if he squares it up, you’ll probably get an out, because your stats are far superior. That’s what RNG is in MLB the Show, it’s a core part of the game and has been for years. It’s also a core part of most games in some way, shape or form, so what is there to “leak”? I think you need to understand the concept of RNG and it’s applications in many areas fully before you can understand why it’s not a closely guarded secret.
But the community doesn’t want a random based game. We need a game where skills can matter more than randomness. They have [censored] the bed so far. They should obey.
Listen, in my opinion, as a highly dedicated MLB the Show player over the last few years who’s sunk a lot of time into the game, RNG in and of itself is not the issue. The game needs RNG to function on many levels, as I tried to explain above. THE RNG ONLY BECOMES AN ISSUE WHEN IT HAS MORE OF AN IMPACT ON IN GAME OUTCOMES THAN USER INPUT, WHICH HAS SLOWLY BECOME THE CASE OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, CULMINATING IN THIS YEARS GAME WHERE USER INPUT IS SECONDARY TO SIMULATION FACTORS.
Hope that’s clear to anyone from SDS reading this thread.
I get your point. We need a more skilled based game. But let me ask you, do you think SDS really wants that? I think they don’t want to make this game more skilled based.
-
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
It’s not that kind of thing at all. You’re talking about RNG as if it’s some clandestine black hat operation that requires all employees to swear a blood oath never to speak of such things. RNG is just a way of coding games like this, it’s not a state secret. What do you think all those stats are for on the cards? Just to look pretty? Every time you face off in an AB, either as a hitter or pitcher, the outcome is determined by a type of RNG (Random Number Generator). The stats on the card help you to come out in the right side of that dice roll. Prestige Mantle vs a common SP in BR? RNG likely to dictate in your favour based on stats. 99 Kluber vs a crappy common hitter? Even if he squares it up, you’ll probably get an out, because your stats are far superior. That’s what RNG is in MLB the Show, it’s a core part of the game and has been for years. It’s also a core part of most games in some way, shape or form, so what is there to “leak”? I think you need to understand the concept of RNG and it’s applications in many areas fully before you can understand why it’s not a closely guarded secret.
But the community doesn’t want a random based game. We need a game where skills can matter more than randomness. They have [censored] the bed so far. They should obey.
Listen, in my opinion, as a highly dedicated MLB the Show player over the last few years who’s sunk a lot of time into the game, RNG in and of itself is not the issue. The game needs RNG to function on many levels, as I tried to explain above. THE RNG ONLY BECOMES AN ISSUE WHEN IT HAS MORE OF AN IMPACT ON IN GAME OUTCOMES THAN USER INPUT, WHICH HAS SLOWLY BECOME THE CASE OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, CULMINATING IN THIS YEARS GAME WHERE USER INPUT IS SECONDARY TO SIMULATION FACTORS.
Hope that’s clear to anyone from SDS reading this thread.
I get your point. We need a more skilled based game. But let me ask you, do you think SDS really wants that? I think they don’t want to make this game more skilled based.
I think they’ve tried to aim for something like a skill gap or at least the appearance of one, even with the RNG, yes. My take is that they keep adding things to the game each year that provide additional layers of RNG without considering the resultant mish-mash of opposing RNG factors at play. HR/9 being a active stat, then not, perfect/perfect, there’s already all the various factors at play in each at bat such as clutch, H/9, contact etc. It feels to me like a huge haphazard spiderweb of simulation factors that have to matter, because they’re baked into the game and have been for years. If they all matter to some extent and all work to cancel each other out in some way or another, I, for one, seriously doubt even the guys at SDS could provide any real clarity on the final outcome of all these competing factors. It’s clearly too much at this point, but I believe the game will be rebuilt for next year on a new engine and all this will be a moot point, as we will see a new host of problems born with the new engine. So the cycle continues.
-
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
It’s not that kind of thing at all. You’re talking about RNG as if it’s some clandestine black hat operation that requires all employees to swear a blood oath never to speak of such things. RNG is just a way of coding games like this, it’s not a state secret. What do you think all those stats are for on the cards? Just to look pretty? Every time you face off in an AB, either as a hitter or pitcher, the outcome is determined by a type of RNG (Random Number Generator). The stats on the card help you to come out in the right side of that dice roll. Prestige Mantle vs a common SP in BR? RNG likely to dictate in your favour based on stats. 99 Kluber vs a crappy common hitter? Even if he squares it up, you’ll probably get an out, because your stats are far superior. That’s what RNG is in MLB the Show, it’s a core part of the game and has been for years. It’s also a core part of most games in some way, shape or form, so what is there to “leak”? I think you need to understand the concept of RNG and it’s applications in many areas fully before you can understand why it’s not a closely guarded secret.
But the community doesn’t want a random based game. We need a game where skills can matter more than randomness. They have [censored] the bed so far. They should obey.
Listen, in my opinion, as a highly dedicated MLB the Show player over the last few years who’s sunk a lot of time into the game, RNG in and of itself is not the issue. The game needs RNG to function on many levels, as I tried to explain above. THE RNG ONLY BECOMES AN ISSUE WHEN IT HAS MORE OF AN IMPACT ON IN GAME OUTCOMES THAN USER INPUT, WHICH HAS SLOWLY BECOME THE CASE OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, CULMINATING IN THIS YEARS GAME WHERE USER INPUT IS SECONDARY TO SIMULATION FACTORS.
Hope that’s clear to anyone from SDS reading this thread.
I get your point. We need a more skilled based game. But let me ask you, do you think SDS really wants that? I think they don’t want to make this game more skilled based.
I think they’ve tried to aim for something like a skill gap or at least the appearance of one, even with the RNG, yes. My take is that they keep adding things to the game each year that provide additional layers of RNG without considering the resultant mish-mash of opposing RNG factors at play. HR/9 being a active stat, then not, perfect/perfect, there’s already all the various factors at play in each at bat such as clutch, H/9, contact etc. It feels to me like a huge haphazard spiderweb of simulation factors that have to matter, because they’re baked into the game and have been for years. If they all matter to some extent and all work to cancel each other out in some way or another, I, for one, seriously doubt even the guys at SDS could provide any real clarity on the final outcome of all these competing factors. It’s clearly too much at this point, but I believe the game will be rebuilt for next year on a new engine and all this will be a moot point, as we will see a new host of problems born with the new engine. So the cycle continues.
Don’t you think the need this element of randomness to keep casual players from boring because of losing too much? Having the randomness over skills will help not very good players to get their wins. They’ll stay in the game and end up spending some money on it.
-
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
It’s not that kind of thing at all. You’re talking about RNG as if it’s some clandestine black hat operation that requires all employees to swear a blood oath never to speak of such things. RNG is just a way of coding games like this, it’s not a state secret. What do you think all those stats are for on the cards? Just to look pretty? Every time you face off in an AB, either as a hitter or pitcher, the outcome is determined by a type of RNG (Random Number Generator). The stats on the card help you to come out in the right side of that dice roll. Prestige Mantle vs a common SP in BR? RNG likely to dictate in your favour based on stats. 99 Kluber vs a crappy common hitter? Even if he squares it up, you’ll probably get an out, because your stats are far superior. That’s what RNG is in MLB the Show, it’s a core part of the game and has been for years. It’s also a core part of most games in some way, shape or form, so what is there to “leak”? I think you need to understand the concept of RNG and it’s applications in many areas fully before you can understand why it’s not a closely guarded secret.
But the community doesn’t want a random based game. We need a game where skills can matter more than randomness. They have [censored] the bed so far. They should obey.
Listen, in my opinion, as a highly dedicated MLB the Show player over the last few years who’s sunk a lot of time into the game, RNG in and of itself is not the issue. The game needs RNG to function on many levels, as I tried to explain above. THE RNG ONLY BECOMES AN ISSUE WHEN IT HAS MORE OF AN IMPACT ON IN GAME OUTCOMES THAN USER INPUT, WHICH HAS SLOWLY BECOME THE CASE OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, CULMINATING IN THIS YEARS GAME WHERE USER INPUT IS SECONDARY TO SIMULATION FACTORS.
Hope that’s clear to anyone from SDS reading this thread.
I get your point. We need a more skilled based game. But let me ask you, do you think SDS really wants that? I think they don’t want to make this game more skilled based.
I think they’ve tried to aim for something like a skill gap or at least the appearance of one, even with the RNG, yes. My take is that they keep adding things to the game each year that provide additional layers of RNG without considering the resultant mish-mash of opposing RNG factors at play. HR/9 being a active stat, then not, perfect/perfect, there’s already all the various factors at play in each at bat such as clutch, H/9, contact etc. It feels to me like a huge haphazard spiderweb of simulation factors that have to matter, because they’re baked into the game and have been for years. If they all matter to some extent and all work to cancel each other out in some way or another, I, for one, seriously doubt even the guys at SDS could provide any real clarity on the final outcome of all these competing factors. It’s clearly too much at this point, but I believe the game will be rebuilt for next year on a new engine and all this will be a moot point, as we will see a new host of problems born with the new engine. So the cycle continues.
Don’t you think the need this element of randomness to keep casual players from boring because of losing too much? Having the randomness over skills will help not very good players to get their wins. They’ll stay in the game and end up spending some money on it.
No, I don’t subscribe to that theory personally. I often see posts along the lines of “SDS ruined gameplay to sell stubs” or as you said, to paraphrase “Helping bad players get undeserved wins keeps them
playing”. While there may be a nugget of truth to that, it’s a dangerous line to take. I don’t think SDS are stupid or naive enough to deliberately alienate the majority of the loyal retained playerbase who buy the game every year and are dedicated in favour of potentially luring a minority of players who are generally transient in nature and will move onto Madden or NHL regardless of any success they may experience in MLB the Show.The only way they’d consider that tactic is if they seriously misjudged either the loyalty of the existing players I referred to and their willingness to actually quit playing the game, or misjudged their own ability to do all of this, while successfully masking the fact from players who spend a lot of time playing the game and can see and feel what is happening for themselves. Otherwise you risk cutting off your nose to spite your face and losing more players than you stand to gain.
-
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ComebackLogic said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
It’s not that kind of thing at all. You’re talking about RNG as if it’s some clandestine black hat operation that requires all employees to swear a blood oath never to speak of such things. RNG is just a way of coding games like this, it’s not a state secret. What do you think all those stats are for on the cards? Just to look pretty? Every time you face off in an AB, either as a hitter or pitcher, the outcome is determined by a type of RNG (Random Number Generator). The stats on the card help you to come out in the right side of that dice roll. Prestige Mantle vs a common SP in BR? RNG likely to dictate in your favour based on stats. 99 Kluber vs a crappy common hitter? Even if he squares it up, you’ll probably get an out, because your stats are far superior. That’s what RNG is in MLB the Show, it’s a core part of the game and has been for years. It’s also a core part of most games in some way, shape or form, so what is there to “leak”? I think you need to understand the concept of RNG and it’s applications in many areas fully before you can understand why it’s not a closely guarded secret.
But the community doesn’t want a random based game. We need a game where skills can matter more than randomness. They have [censored] the bed so far. They should obey.
Listen, in my opinion, as a highly dedicated MLB the Show player over the last few years who’s sunk a lot of time into the game, RNG in and of itself is not the issue. The game needs RNG to function on many levels, as I tried to explain above. THE RNG ONLY BECOMES AN ISSUE WHEN IT HAS MORE OF AN IMPACT ON IN GAME OUTCOMES THAN USER INPUT, WHICH HAS SLOWLY BECOME THE CASE OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, CULMINATING IN THIS YEARS GAME WHERE USER INPUT IS SECONDARY TO SIMULATION FACTORS.
Hope that’s clear to anyone from SDS reading this thread.
I get your point. We need a more skilled based game. But let me ask you, do you think SDS really wants that? I think they don’t want to make this game more skilled based.
I think they’ve tried to aim for something like a skill gap or at least the appearance of one, even with the RNG, yes. My take is that they keep adding things to the game each year that provide additional layers of RNG without considering the resultant mish-mash of opposing RNG factors at play. HR/9 being a active stat, then not, perfect/perfect, there’s already all the various factors at play in each at bat such as clutch, H/9, contact etc. It feels to me like a huge haphazard spiderweb of simulation factors that have to matter, because they’re baked into the game and have been for years. If they all matter to some extent and all work to cancel each other out in some way or another, I, for one, seriously doubt even the guys at SDS could provide any real clarity on the final outcome of all these competing factors. It’s clearly too much at this point, but I believe the game will be rebuilt for next year on a new engine and all this will be a moot point, as we will see a new host of problems born with the new engine. So the cycle continues.
Don’t you think the need this element of randomness to keep casual players from boring because of losing too much? Having the randomness over skills will help not very good players to get their wins. They’ll stay in the game and end up spending some money on it.
No, I don’t subscribe to that theory personally. I often see posts along the lines of “SDS ruined gameplay to sell stubs” or as you said, to paraphrase “Helping bad players get undeserved wins keeps them
playing”. While there may be a nugget of truth to that, it’s a dangerous line to take. I don’t think SDS are stupid or naive enough to deliberately alienate the majority of the loyal retained playerbase who buy the game every year and are dedicated in favour of potentially luring a minority of players who are generally transient in nature and will move onto Madden or NHL regardless of any success they may experience in MLB the Show.The only way they’d consider that tactic is if they seriously misjudged either the loyalty of the existing players I referred to and their willingness to actually quit playing the game, or misjudged their own ability to do all of this, while successfully masking the fact from players who spend a lot of time playing the game and can see and feel what is happening for themselves. Otherwise you risk cutting off your nose to spite your face and losing more players than you stand to gain.
Pretty good point you bring there. Very interesting to read. If your point is real, that mean even they can’t figure it out as you said. We have no other option that once again hope for a better product next year.
I wish we could have constant feedback from SDS. There are so many questions that they could answer to give us clarity about why we have this kind of gameplay that’s dominated by randomness.
-
@MLB_Baseball_Fan said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
It seems that there a billion examples of RNG influencing games that have been posted to this forum for the past many years. Many folks --- myself included --- have posted specific in-game examples of RNG determining outcomes. These seem reasonable enough.
What I don't understand is why absolutely zero proof of RNG has come out of SD Studios from current or past employees leaking emails, code, etc. to prove that: 1) RNG is baked into the game and 2) that the company does it to keep mediocre players around (like me) to buy stubs and help SD Studios make a profit. Although I am mediocre player, I don't fall into the trap of buying stubs, so SD Studios is not making a dime from me on in-game purchases.
Since it seems RNG has been around many years now, it seems someone from inside SD Studios would have come clean by now and produced documents, emails, video, code or some other evidence of what SD Studios is up to --- which we all intuitively feel now and again when playing the game.
So, as the old 1980s Wendy's commercial asked. . . .
. . . Where's the beef? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riH5EsGcmTw
Because it could be a career killer for that person who comes clean. Pretty sure Madden had to come clean a couple of years ago about the pay to win scheme. Other than that, you don't hear from any sports games about the RNG.
-
Lol they can have an event with quick counts that “Randomly Generates Numbers” and people still don’t understand how RNG is in the game.
-
@ChArTeRBuS said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
Lol they can have an event with quick counts that “Randomly Generates Numbers” and people still don’t understand how RNG is in the game.
You okay with the game the way it is right now?
-
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ChArTeRBuS said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
Lol they can have an event with quick counts that “Randomly Generates Numbers” and people still don’t understand how RNG is in the game.
You okay with the game the way it is right now?
Lol not that it has anything to do with what I was talking about I really couldn’t care less. It’s a two button video game that plays like it was made in the 90s and looks like it was made in 2020.....there isn’t even a CATCH button what skill gap are you looking for?
-
@ChArTeRBuS said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@TeamPotro said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
@ChArTeRBuS said in RNG? Where's the beef? And the smoking gun?:
Lol they can have an event with quick counts that “Randomly Generates Numbers” and people still don’t understand how RNG is in the game.
You okay with the game the way it is right now?
Lol not that it has anything to do with what I was talking about I really couldn’t care less. It’s a two button video game that plays like it was made in the 90s and looks like it was made in 2020.....there isn’t even a CATCH button what skill gap are you looking for?
Perfectly said. It always kinda confused me, how they never made fielding more skillful. Hell even button accuracy you dont need any skill.
-
A admin locked this topic on
