SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina
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Add to it that relievers start with shi**y confidence too. One hit and they're worthless I swear
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Agreed wholeheartedly.
Relief pitchers are useless with the way it is structured now. From stamina to confidence and the three batter minimum, the recipe is disastrous. And that’s why we see so many starters out of the pen. You can’t blame the community of players for doing that when using a reliever has cost them so many leads.
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Starters should probably come in with half stamina taken away. This would require 2-3 days rest before being able to start. If they want to use them twice in relief between starts, it'll hurt a lot.
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I think the RP stamina curve shouldn't be flat... you should diminish during an inning more slowly but then take a one time drop between innings. Real life relief pitchers can handle a 30 pitch inning better than 20 pitches over three innings, time and cooling down between innings is also a factor. This would reduce both unrealistic 3+ inning relief appearances and also push back on people who put a different starter in the second inning. They'd pay that stamina penalty every inning.
I'm not sure if they already do this, or if its a linear calculation, but it feels linear. -
@Ikasnu said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
Add to it that relievers start with shi**y confidence too. One hit and they're worthless I swear
Would be nice if reliever confidence went up as fast as it goes down. If you crack off a nasty slider and screw batter into the ground on a k, it would be great if the confidence bar blinked and went up bit. Raises the stakes for relief appearances, where it's not a batter by batter battle but a pitch by pitch one.
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SDS needs to find the balance between relievers getting tired from walking in from the pen and being too dominant. i.e. like Rollie being able to throw 3 innings.
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
With the implementation of the three batter minimum rule it seems awfully counterintuitive to start relief pitchers with less than 100% stamina and have them deplete as quick as they do.
I'm sure these professional pitchers will adapt to the rule and have the stamina necessary to remain effective.
Let's throw them a bone SDS and give them the benefit of the doubt.
#MakeRPGreatAgain
Yeah It is really bad in 3 inning games 6 pitches and in the yellow. People will take 2 strikes to get the stamina down. RP are very useless in 3 inning games.
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@vox_pestis said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
I think the RP stamina curve shouldn't be flat... you should diminish during an inning more slowly but then take a one time drop between innings. Real life relief pitchers can handle a 30 pitch inning better than 20 pitches over three innings, time and cooling down between innings is also a factor. This would reduce both unrealistic 3+ inning relief appearances and also push back on people who put a different starter in the second inning. They'd pay that stamina penalty every inning.
I'm not sure if they already do this, or if its a linear calculation, but it feels linear.This is one hundred percent wrong. Real life pitchers are better able to handle 3x 15-pitch innings than they can handle 1 28 pitch inning. a 28 pitch inning means you likely are facing 5-6 better meaning you are probably throwing half of those pitches in high intensity, max effort, energy draining situations. Also 28 consecutive pitches without rest is far more taxing on your arm than 50 pitches with adequate rest between innings.
I always advocated for having pitchers regenerate energy between innings ever so slowly, but enough so that if you have a long inning at the plate it actually helps your pitcher as well and inversely a 3-pitch inning makes it so your pitcher never gets a break and hurts his energy far more as that is completely realistic.
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@ThaSultanOfSwag said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
@vox_pestis said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
I think the RP stamina curve shouldn't be flat... you should diminish during an inning more slowly but then take a one time drop between innings. Real life relief pitchers can handle a 30 pitch inning better than 20 pitches over three innings, time and cooling down between innings is also a factor. This would reduce both unrealistic 3+ inning relief appearances and also push back on people who put a different starter in the second inning. They'd pay that stamina penalty every inning.
I'm not sure if they already do this, or if its a linear calculation, but it feels linear.This is one hundred percent wrong. Real life pitchers are better able to handle 3x 15-pitch innings than they can handle 1 28 pitch inning. a 28 pitch inning means you likely are facing 5-6 better meaning you are probably throwing half of those pitches in high intensity, max effort, energy draining situations. Also 28 consecutive pitches without rest is far more taxing on your arm than 50 pitches with adequate rest between innings.
I always advocated for having pitchers regenerate energy between innings ever so slowly, but enough so that if you have a long inning at the plate it actually helps your pitcher as well and inversely a 3-pitch inning makes it so your pitcher never gets a break and hurts his energy far more as that is completely realistic.
That's completely subjective and most likely varies from pitcher to pitcher.
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
@ThaSultanOfSwag said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
@vox_pestis said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
I think the RP stamina curve shouldn't be flat... you should diminish during an inning more slowly but then take a one time drop between innings. Real life relief pitchers can handle a 30 pitch inning better than 20 pitches over three innings, time and cooling down between innings is also a factor. This would reduce both unrealistic 3+ inning relief appearances and also push back on people who put a different starter in the second inning. They'd pay that stamina penalty every inning.
I'm not sure if they already do this, or if its a linear calculation, but it feels linear.This is one hundred percent wrong. Real life pitchers are better able to handle 3x 15-pitch innings than they can handle 1 28 pitch inning. a 28 pitch inning means you likely are facing 5-6 better meaning you are probably throwing half of those pitches in high intensity, max effort, energy draining situations. Also 28 consecutive pitches without rest is far more taxing on your arm than 50 pitches with adequate rest between innings.
I always advocated for having pitchers regenerate energy between innings ever so slowly, but enough so that if you have a long inning at the plate it actually helps your pitcher as well and inversely a 3-pitch inning makes it so your pitcher never gets a break and hurts his energy far more as that is completely realistic.
That's completely subjective and most likely varies from pitcher to pitcher.
I would be willing to bet that 95%+ pitchers would agree with that statement. How often do you see "Noah Syndergaard is on a 60 pitch rehab outing got pulled in the 1st inning after throwing 33 pitches"
That [censored] happens all the time because it is fact that repetition is what causes fatigue. Why do you think weightlifters will do three sets of 10 instead of one set of 30? because taking small breaks allows your muscles to recharge and heal and 100% is why long innings at the plate HELP your pitcher unless its TOO LONG to the point where the muscles go past recovery into repairing. There is indisputable evidence that one long inning should be far more taxing on a pitcher's fatigue than 2-3 short innings.
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@ThaSultanOfSwag said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
@ThaSultanOfSwag said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
@vox_pestis said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
I think the RP stamina curve shouldn't be flat... you should diminish during an inning more slowly but then take a one time drop between innings. Real life relief pitchers can handle a 30 pitch inning better than 20 pitches over three innings, time and cooling down between innings is also a factor. This would reduce both unrealistic 3+ inning relief appearances and also push back on people who put a different starter in the second inning. They'd pay that stamina penalty every inning.
I'm not sure if they already do this, or if its a linear calculation, but it feels linear.This is one hundred percent wrong. Real life pitchers are better able to handle 3x 15-pitch innings than they can handle 1 28 pitch inning. a 28 pitch inning means you likely are facing 5-6 better meaning you are probably throwing half of those pitches in high intensity, max effort, energy draining situations. Also 28 consecutive pitches without rest is far more taxing on your arm than 50 pitches with adequate rest between innings.
I always advocated for having pitchers regenerate energy between innings ever so slowly, but enough so that if you have a long inning at the plate it actually helps your pitcher as well and inversely a 3-pitch inning makes it so your pitcher never gets a break and hurts his energy far more as that is completely realistic.
That's completely subjective and most likely varies from pitcher to pitcher.
I would be willing to bet that 95%+ pitchers would agree with that statement. How often do you see "Noah Syndergaard is on a 60 pitch rehab outing got pulled in the 1st inning after throwing 33 pitches"
That [censored] happens all the time because it is fact that repetition is what causes fatigue. Why do you think weightlifters will do three sets of 10 instead of one set of 30? because taking small breaks allows your muscles to recharge and heal and 100% is why long innings at the plate HELP your pitcher unless its TOO LONG to the point where the muscles go past recovery into repairing. There is indisputable evidence that one long inning should be far more taxing on a pitcher's fatigue than 2-3 short innings.
Again, that's your subjective opinion. It doesn't matter how many random words you choose to capitalize.
Syndergaard is a SP though, this was addressing RP.
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
With the implementation of the three batter minimum rule it seems awfully counterintuitive to start relief pitchers with less than 100% stamina and have them deplete as quick as they do.
I'm sure these professional pitchers will adapt to the rule and have the stamina necessary to remain effective.
Let's throw them a bone SDS and give them the benefit of the doubt.
#MakeRPGreatAgain
This. And how come making a pitcher be "ready and waiting" doesn't actually stop them from warming up?
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@vox_pestis said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
@Ikasnu said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
Add to it that relievers start with shi**y confidence too. One hit and they're worthless I swear
Would be nice if reliever confidence went up as fast as it goes down. If you crack off a nasty slider and screw batter into the ground on a k, it would be great if the confidence bar blinked and went up bit. Raises the stakes for relief appearances, where it's not a batter by batter battle but a pitch by pitch one.
That's another thing, I would LOVE to see dynamic visual changes to confidence. Everytime you Press R2 it flashes either red or green to indicate loss or gain.
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@ThaSultanOfSwag said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
@vox_pestis said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
I think the RP stamina curve shouldn't be flat... you should diminish during an inning more slowly but then take a one time drop between innings. Real life relief pitchers can handle a 30 pitch inning better than 20 pitches over three innings, time and cooling down between innings is also a factor. This would reduce both unrealistic 3+ inning relief appearances and also push back on people who put a different starter in the second inning. They'd pay that stamina penalty every inning.
I'm not sure if they already do this, or if its a linear calculation, but it feels linear.This is one hundred percent wrong. Real life pitchers are better able to handle 3x 15-pitch innings than they can handle 1 28 pitch inning. a 28 pitch inning means you likely are facing 5-6 better meaning you are probably throwing half of those pitches in high intensity, max effort, energy draining situations. Also 28 consecutive pitches without rest is far more taxing on your arm than 50 pitches with adequate rest between innings.
I always advocated for having pitchers regenerate energy between innings ever so slowly, but enough so that if you have a long inning at the plate it actually helps your pitcher as well and inversely a 3-pitch inning makes it so your pitcher never gets a break and hurts his energy far more as that is completely realistic.
Interesting. I’m glad you actually supported your point instead of just saying mine was wrong.
A better way to look at this is probably fatigue and strain. Fatigue is familiar to everyone... Lactic acid build up causes soreness, and the between inning break let’s that process progress. This effects a pitchers whole body, and a lot of pitching happens in the legs.
But pitchers are different than most that they actually injure themselves. Pitching is an awkward movement for the arm which causes micro tears in your elbow and rotator cuff mostly. I’ll call this strain for lack of a better word.
Fatigue, I believe, matters more during a game, but repairing the micro tears caused by strain comes into play between starts. For me, this was so bad I had to stop pitching by age 18. I didn’t have the genetic makeup to heal and was just getting destroyed.
I may have been over emphasizing some analytics I read in baseball prospectus about “stress pitches” not really existing.
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@Ikasnu said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
@vox_pestis said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
@Ikasnu said in SDS you really sure reconsider RP stamina:
Add to it that relievers start with shi**y confidence too. One hit and they're worthless I swear
Would be nice if reliever confidence went up as fast as it goes down. If you crack off a nasty slider and screw batter into the ground on a k, it would be great if the confidence bar blinked and went up bit. Raises the stakes for relief appearances, where it's not a batter by batter battle but a pitch by pitch one.
That's another thing, I would LOVE to see dynamic visual changes to confidence. Everytime you Press R2 it flashes either red or green to indicate loss or gain.
This is even better than my flashing suggestion. Would make pitching have a bit more visceral feel. For me, throwing a pitch was a lot like throwing a punch in a fight, you apply max effort and Sometimes you hit (swing and miss) sometimes you miss and get flash ko on the counter punch (pitch gets crushed). I know for me my adrenaline was really high and I felt like I’d been in a fight after pitching. I’d like the games visual presentation to somehow reflect that intensity.
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Great suggestion mate
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