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mucous052army

@mucous052army
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    SDS Dev "Brian SCEA" comments on hitting
  • M mucous052army

    @MadderBumgarner said in SDS Dev "Brian SCEA" comments on hitting:

    Over at OperationSports he made some in-depth comments. I've copy and pasted here. Why can't these guys engage like this on their official forums?

    Brian SCEA - Senior AI Programmer - MLB: The Show

    One note on the difficulty change. The difference is 1/4 the gap between Veteran and Allstar (or 1/2 the difference between Veteran+ and Allstar in Dynamic). Another way of saying it is, every time you change difficulty in DD (through matchmaking, etc..), you blow way past this level of change by a factor of 4x (going from Veteran to Allstar is the same as applying the patch 4 times).

    Between difficulty settings, the biggest result is you get more swing and misses and fouls on your worst swings. The swing feedback meaning doesn't really change (Perfect-Perfect, Squared Up, Good, Okay, etc..). Difficulty does not change the hit types - what changes is how often you earn them.

    On hit type feedback, the strategy guide quotes the user stats from Beta. This is from averaging tens of thousands of users:
    Batting average on Perfect Contact is around .850.

    What this means is that 5 out of 6 P-P are going to end up hits on average. It's quite normal for one person to get 10 hits in a row and another person to go 2 for 5 - both people are playing the same game. To illustrate, I rolled random numbers 1 to 6, 5 times for each user. Imagine that 5 = an out on perfect-perfect:
    14155
    62422
    23624
    13266
    42555
    24334

    User 1 went 3 for 5, and user 5 went 2 for 5. Users 2, 3, 4, 6 all went perfect 5 for 5.

    Same thing goes for getting HRs with perfect-perfect. This is influenced by how you swing (flyballs or groundballs) and the batter's attribute (a pitcher is not going to HR as often), but otherwise the same idea applies. About 30% of perfect-perfect are HRs but you will get streaks naturally.

    Last I checked, Squared Up was around 60-65% hits depending on type and attribute again. You are going to get streaks both ways.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by knucklecutter

    "I use 10 for both on HOF and they are for sure faster."

    A 10 will be exactly 2.0 mph faster.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by countryboy

    I'm curious to see if default pitch speeds are changed at all with the update to the pitch speed slider.

    They're the same. If they seem slow to you, that's because you are exceptional.

    There are going to be a lot of people who see the pitches as slow. There are roughly exactly the same number of people who see the pitches as fast. This is trickier in two-player games because you need to negotiate some intermediate value.

    The difference between a Legend user and an Allstar user is the same as the difference between the average MLB hitter an a pitcher. Yet there are many users starting out and well below Allstar.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dolenz

    There are so many bugs across so many modes that it is hard to get behind a patch that prioritizes hitting difficulty over bug fixes.

    You would not want your plumber working on your electricity. So whoever works on the game's hitting is only looking at the hitting. Speaking only for myself, I looked at other parts of the game, I would probably break it. I barely understand it.

    There are wider reasons for the hitting change, but they are related to the exit velo this year compared to last year. I don't know if any stream has mentioned it, but based on last year's game we wanted to make that sure as you ranked up in difficulty you still got hard hits - it will just be harder to make contact and put the ball into play. This patch has to happen sooner or later because it gets exposed more as you approach WS and build up your teams.

    As the previous notes pointed out, Perfect-Perfect hasn't changed nor Squared Up. Anyone can hit a 450 HR on Legend DD, it just won't be easy. And as the previous post mentioned, it's a 1/4 difficulty change and difficulty doesn't affect the hit types but how often you get them. But I understand the patch just came out so people are going to judge based on the wording rather than what the patch does.

    Simply put: Count the batting average on Perfect-Perfect - it's going to be unchanged in the long run.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by countryboy

    On the topic of pitching and to tie in with the community seeing an influx of homeruns, it seems to me that there are more "hangers/meatball" pitches in the game versus previous years, which I think is leading to more hard hit balls that in turn result in more homeruns. And this is happening with great/elite pitchers and not just a back end rotation starter who you may expect to leave more hittable pitches out over the plate.

    I gather user stats twice a year for detailed analysis on topics like this. I hate to give strategy advice, so let me present some hard facts instead. Compared to MLB, users in our game are choosing to throw too many strikes to power hitters. It's fine to throw strikes to most of the lineup, but in MLB pitchers pitch differently when a power guy walks up. Most of our users don't do that.

    Maybe there's something else wrong with the game. Whatever that might be, this blows that away. I can go into the detailed numbers on why this has to be for good pitching strategy, but there are hundreds of articles on this. So I'll speak very generally for illustration.

    Most of the time in both MLB and the game, a hanging pitch is not even a hit. The batter doesn't swing, or misses, or fouls, or hits it for a normal out even if solid. The difference is with a power hitter, you are risking a HR versus an out - compared to a regular hitter being more often a 1B or 2B versus an out. For simplicity that's a gap of 4 bases versus a gap of 1.5 bases. The risk reward ratio is totally different.

    So you walk power hitters a lot when you 'dont have to'. You would think that contact hitters are better at taking balls than power hitters - and they are. But who gets the most walks? Check the leaderboards. On a good year Gallo will get 70+ walks. Ichiro could hope for 50. This is not because Gallo is more careful about what he swings at - but how pitchers pitch around him.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JoshC1977

    Also, Brian, are you able to elaborate on which slider solution might help minimize this without other deleterious effects? I'm convinced an increase to CPU Pitch Control is a viable option (rather than decreasing strike frequency as that seems to alter how the AI pitches to the user). However, I'd love your take if you're able to provide one.

    Pitch control is probably the slider you want.

    I'm interested in what is the right balance for pitching, but without all the facts I can't say what's right. Imagine I knew for sure that pitching should be more accurate - should we even change that still? A patch like that would mean two things a) "I lost my game because it's easy to pitch and they nerfed hitting again". I don't mind that, people are always entitled to complain. And b) "The patch made me hit into a double play with Mike Trout. The patch made my squared up hit into an out" - which the patch could not possibly have done but is also impossible to deny (any change to pitch location, even random, will change your hit result through the butterfly effect).

    So as a rule, I focus on things that are necessary to fix specific problems. And I think it's important not to change the balance between hitting and pitching unless it's going to preempt a problem later. It helps that offense is high and still is, but that's not the main reason for the difficulty change.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by countryboy

    *Thank you for the explanation Brian, greatly appreciated.

    I re-read my post and failed to mention that I was referring to the CPU leaving to many hittable pitches over the plate. As a user, I understand that my hangers/meatballs are a result of my own doing, meaning I made a mistake in user input thus resulting in the outcome.

    I don't know if this changes anything in regards to the response, but wanted to ensure that the question I was asking was complete and I apologize for omitting "CPU" from my original post.

    Again, appreciate you taking the time to provide us with this feedback.*

    The CPU isn't trying to hang pitches, but they miss. When I looked at this, the CPU location is pretty continuous. What I mean by that is for example:
    https://library.fangraphs.com/misc/heatmaps/

    Occasionally Rivera is trying to throw down the middle, but more often he's working one side and it happens to miss and land there. However, down the middle is no more frequent than the sides. I've looked at different settings and modes and the CPU appears the same. But I can't speak to your individual experience.

    You can use the pitch control slider to adjust this. If you're getting a lot of success against these pitches, it's also going to be in part to your skill - either difficulty setting or how well you react against pitches down the middle. A lot of people actually struggle on a pitch down the middle because they're expecting the worse, but your 'optimistic' approach (assuming you're successful) is better.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JoshC1977

    My question was more...IF an offline user were to desire a greater tendency for CPU pitchers to "nibble" (without increasing the base difficulty), is there a "best" approach (via slider adjustments) in your opinion in which this could be accomplished without overly impacting other aspects of the game?

    You want to use the sliders in that case, but as far as what you change this differs from person to person so you would know better than me. Allstar is designed for the average person to play very similar to MLB - but almost nobody is average.

    This is called blowing smoke up butts


  • MTO is pure theater
  • M mucous052army

    9 hours in and it's September 2nd and all I do is basically sit back and watch the programming go to work.

    If you haven't tried MTO. Don't. You will never see worse balls and strike calls in your life. You will never see more 30 Contact/30power left-hannded bums take Aroldis deep in 0-2 counts to tie the game. Just all around tomfoolery.

    It's beautiful actually. The presentation and cutscenes make it feel real, but ignoring my user input makes it feel like a waste of time.

    Just too many hoops for a guy to jump thru.


  • 3 Team Affinity Packs. 7 out of 12 cards are free agents
  • M mucous052army

    It's time to get your chit together around here, SDS. I didn't drop $100 on a game to play with old cards from past editons. Nor did I buy Trout for 226k just to have balls bounce off his chest. How long have you been making baseball video games? Balls weren't bouncing off heads at the end of last year, so why are they at the beginning of this year?

    The silence on your own boards is getting real old. You've turned this game into a chitshow when everybody loved it during early release.


  • I don’t see anyone defending this game.
  • M mucous052army

    @sean_87_ said in I don’t see anyone defending this game.:

    @A_PerfectGame said in I don’t see anyone defending this game.:

    That gives the game a lot of hope. The general consensus is this patch made this the worst version of mlb the show to date which is unfortunate because just a week ago we were playing possibly the BEST version of mlb the show ever made. (Minus a few bugs and a few misc fixes)

    Why they chose to scale the game back to a broken random dumpster fire is really beyond my understanding. I can’t even imagine the casual players would have any sort of fun playing this game in its current state.

    That being said that makes me think positive about the eventual outcome.

    1. They need people that are actually good in this game testing it. We’ve watched the dev streams let’s be honest...none of you are very good at your own game which in turn makes you think other people can possibly be good at the game. To be honest all of you would be about 500-600 range or less in the grand scheme of things. So maybe get some very high skilled players down there to test the game?

    2. Accept that ppl want to have fun. Forget micro managing telemetry and data. If the scores are 10-8 they are 10-8. It got harder as you moved up...and it’s a lot more fun then 1-1 or 2-1 with 15 lineouts on great inputs by both teams.

    3. Respect the community and stay true to your word. You sold this game on SKILL WOULD MATTER. And INPUTS WOULD MATTER. They don’t. Period. Inputs mean literally nothing.

    I like the game. It’s not perfect, but they are trying to make a realistic baseball game and every year it has gotten more realistic.

    The graphics and presentation are what makes it feel "real".

    Programming the game to have both users hit and pitch to real life MLB averages is ignorant. Especially online.

    And here is a serious question.....How am I supposed to get better at hitting if the outcome of PCI placement are random? How do I get better if what I do is based on MLB averages? How am I supposed to work on PCI placement?

    All real and serious questions.


  • After a great 1st week here comes the game balancing
  • M mucous052army

    I've already noticed less stars and lower XP in online games.


  • Patch 1.04
  • M mucous052army

    I would've loved it had they fixed all the stat missions not counting.....


  • SDS Please publish the breakdown of perfect averages by type
  • M mucous052army

    I would really like for me and my opponent to have a say in our game. Why are online games dictated by real mlb averages anyway?


  • I don’t see anyone defending this game.
  • M mucous052army

    @HustlinOwl said in I don’t see anyone defending this game.:

    they did fly top players out for their "winter meetings" played well before final release

    I think the point is why do all that along with the beta, all the data and all the player feedback just to change hitting two days after release


  • What happened to Events gameplay?
  • M mucous052army

    @JFazNYY13 said in What happened to Events gameplay?:

    Hitting hasn't felt any different for me, but fielding is undoubtably worse. I've had Trout and Prime Mantle literally run away from fly balls. It's actually kind of comical how bad it is lol.

    Just watched my opponents Mantle run the opposite way on a hit up the middle. It's crazy how bad the game has gotten since pre-release.


  • After a great 1st week here comes the game balancing
  • M mucous052army

    Way less. Was getting over 1000XP per half inning since launch. Now I can't touch 1000XP. Had a 36 pitch inning with 7 batters. A triple and 2 single and still under 1000XP


  • Number 1 WS Player Agrees, Patch was bad idea
  • M mucous052army

    @Dolenz said in Number 1 WS Player Agrees, Patch was bad idea:

    @mucous052army said in Number 1 WS Player Agrees, Patch was bad idea:

    Offline XP has been reduced too. Meanwhile I can't get Eck because of the bugs

    The bottom line for me is that If I can't get to 300 stars in the first inning, with the added points I will earn doing the full US map in conquest then I am probably done with the game.

    It will remind me of '18 when after one month I realized that there was no chance I was even going to be able to earn 1 immortal so I simply quit.

    I remember last year they drastically cut program stars after the 1st inning.


  • DD has taken a step back this year and here's why...SDS PLEASE READ!
  • M mucous052army

    Hitting definitely feels nerfed online. Been playing events past 2 hours and it's night and day between today and yesterday


  • Showdown ticket stuck in limbo
  • M mucous052army

    Oof....what else they going to screw up for the sake of a smaller PCI's?


  • Am I playing my opponent or the algorithms?
  • M mucous052army

    Deadass serious. You want realism? How about not shifting automatically. How about not having 19 check swings never rules a swing.


  • SDS Please publish the breakdown of perfect averages by type
  • M mucous052army

    @the_dragon1912 said in SDS Please publish the breakdown of perfect averages by type:

    I bet the Perfect liners are still pretty good. At least online anyway. If they include all game modes showdown skews these numbers in a bad way. Perfect grounders will probably have a bad average though

    I've seen players make jumping and diving cathes in Showdown I have never seen anywhere else in this game or series


  • Lindor straight yacks
  • M mucous052army

    This sounds like one of those "I need to sell Lindor so let's hype him" thread. Classic!


  • What if quirks were changed to power ups?
  • M mucous052army

    Give us turtle shells to knock runners off the bags.....said nobody

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