Moonshot 2.0 Reveals
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@Teak2112_MLBTS said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
@YOSHI24_XBL said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
@Dolenz_PSN Wait until this moonshot pack hits the deluxe etc. … Then prices will come down. Your Ozzie is my Rickey and I will not overspend one of my 2.6M stubs
The difference is your Rickey will still steal like Rickey on the basepaths. The Ozzie will not field like Ozzie.
This after already giving Ozzie a sub 90 defense card
They [censored] on The Wizard, and even as a non Cardinals fan I can't approve of that
The debate was about getting him …
And: It is pretty clear that those Moonshot cards do things different than their usual cards
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@Dolenz_PSN said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
@YOSHI24_XBL said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
@Dolenz_PSN Wait until this moonshot pack hits the deluxe etc. … Then prices will come down. Your Ozzie is my Rickey and I will not overspend one of my 2.6M stubs
I only have 400K although I could sell a bunch.
I am assuming at least half of that is needed for Gibson.
You can keep running the new mini season for old moonshot packs at least, it will get you most of the way
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@YOSHI24_XBL said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
@Teak2112_MLBTS said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
@YOSHI24_XBL said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
@Dolenz_PSN Wait until this moonshot pack hits the deluxe etc. … Then prices will come down. Your Ozzie is my Rickey and I will not overspend one of my 2.6M stubs
The difference is your Rickey will still steal like Rickey on the basepaths. The Ozzie will not field like Ozzie.
This after already giving Ozzie a sub 90 defense card
They [censored] on The Wizard, and even as a non Cardinals fan I can't approve of that
The debate was about getting him …
And: It is pretty clear that those Moonshot cards do things different than their usual cards
But the problem is Ozzie never got a "usual" card this year. He has gotten two cards with under 90 fielding on both.
In fact his 99 card has even lower fielding than his 89 card did.
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@Dolenz_PSN I just looked up Ozzie … Sorry, that is the most usable Ozzie we ever had … If he could need something, it would be speed …This card plays and I am really looking forward putting him on my Cardinals end-game-theme-team-cycle squad (I do all teams starting around xmas).
If I were you and I would really need him rn, I would simply get him. If not: this Weatherholt will do too
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@YOSHI24_XBL said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
@Dolenz_PSN I just looked up Ozzie … Sorry, that is the most usable Ozzie we ever had … If he could need something, it would be speed …This card plays and I am really looking forward putting him on my Cardinals end-game-theme-team-cycle squad (I do all teams starting around xmas).
If I were you and I would really need him rn, I would simply get him. If not: this Weatherholt will do tooMy point is why, when we are at 99 overall cards and you look at cards like Honus Wagner, did they feel the need to nerf his defense to justify the power?
Why upgrade the ARM and REACTION from his 89 Overall card pretty significantly but then lower the fielding to even lower than his 89 overall card?
Funny, they didn't feel the need to nerf Henderson's speed to justify his moonshot card.
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Action Hero Ozzie > Moonshot Ozzie. 99/99 speed and 99 defense are by a huge margin more important to me on an Ozzie card than just another HR hitter
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@Dolenz_PSN Yes, they lowered Ozzie‘s primary strength to justify his power … you could compare a lot but maybe you should stick with Ozzie.
If you get him, you will probably P5 him … Then he is a diamond fielder. I would rather take a diamond Ozzie as a Cards fan with 100+ power (which makes him a goat-like-hitter) than have a fielding wizard with the power he deserves if that would not be a Moonshot-card … In other words: I really do not get the outrage … at all … This card is end-game, especially for a Cardinals fan -
@YOSHI24_XBL said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
@Dolenz_PSN Yes, they lowered Ozzie‘s primary strength to justify his power … you could compare a lot but maybe you should stick with Ozzie.
If you get him, you will probably P5 him … Then he is a diamond fielder. I would rather take a diamond Ozzie as a Cards fan with 100+ power (which makes him a goat-like-hitter) than have a fielding wizard with the power he deserves if that would not be a Moonshot-card … In other words: I really do not get the outrage … at all … This card is end-game, especially for a Cardinals fanThey throw around 125 contact with zero penalty, so why cant they just give Ozzie max defense? Why do some players have to sacrifice things for the power, and not others? This isnt a zero sum thing, there is no cap on a 99 card.
Its OZZIE SMITH. He is arguably the greatest defensive player in the history of the game. For his 99 he gets a 99 in FLD and then you design the card from there, otherwise you failed in basic design.
What next, we gave Babe Ruth's 99 a 95 in power but give him 85 speed and a 99 drag bunt?
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@YOSHI24_XBL said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
@Dolenz_PSN Yes, they lowered Ozzie‘s primary strength to justify his power … you could compare a lot but maybe you should stick with Ozzie.
If you get him, you will probably P5 him … Then he is a diamond fielder. I would rather take a diamond Ozzie as a Cards fan with 100+ power (which makes him a goat-like-hitter) than have a fielding wizard with the power he deserves if that would not be a Moonshot-card … In other words: I really do not get the outrage … at all … This card is end-game, especially for a Cardinals fanI would not say it is outrage, okay maybe a little, but it is also a lot of disappointment
I am not arguing that it is a bad card. I am not mad that they made him end game viable. If he was another HOF player on another team I would probably have the same opinion everyone else has about this Ozzie card. But the 1982 and 1985 series were in my prime years (17-20) so I hold a special reverence for all those players.
So, yeah, I look at Honus Wagner, who has 1,739 attribute points and was able to keep his all 99 baserunning stats and still have higher Defense than Ozzie and I don't really understand.
Ozzie's card only has 1,530 attribute points . 1,560 attribute points would have been all that was needed to give him 99 fielding stats (30 extra points)
From his 89 card they downgraded his
FLD (-2)
Reac (-3)
Speed (-7)
Steal (-19)
BR AGG (-11)He is 3rd, by the way, on the Cardinals SB list with 433 steals, behind only Lou Brock (whose only card has a 64 steal rating so I guess Ozzie's 60 makes sense) and Vince Coleman.
I don't expect I will sway anyone with these stats and statements which is fine. But I thought I would at least try and explain my point of view.
In the end maybe I am also discouraged because SDS essentially said "Hey Cardinal fans you get two new cards today but if you can't win Gibson you should expect to pay a half million stubs or more for the privilege of using both of these cards anytime soon.
Let's hope that they can redeem themselves in my eyes next week on the HRD X content.
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@Dolenz_PSN got all your points and maybe SDS should not have put Ozzie in the same pricey segment than Gibson (valid points).…
But hey, you are probably the most reasonable person on this board. That is why I tried to explain. Screw his reaction stat or BR AGG … This power makes him a very viable endgame-card … for anybody and especially Cardinals Theme team fans. That was the point I was trying to make
Another one for the reasonable side: This is a moonshot card. It is supposed to be „different“. And yes, it is supposed to be different from a typical Ozzie Card like the 89 (which is waaaaaay worse … in general). Ozzie-cards in special were never usable (except for playing on lower difficulties vs the CPU). This one is and all the others are too (Aparicio…).
Imo this argument destroys the effort the content team put in to create something different. That is why I care, especially since it is you.
To get back: I come from Germany. I have 1 autograph in total from a player and I do not want another since the one is Ozzie (got it at old padres stadium in 1995) … he is the goat and I am glad he got this card. So just to clarify that I am on your side of things -
@Teak2112_MLBTS Roger Clemens was never worth a card below 69 … in his career. End of debate. The moonshot cards should not compare to others (look at the one-week-wonders at Topps Now, they also should not but it is alright they do) … They are supposed to be different and maybe controversial (well, that was succesful
) … perfect. A typical 99 Ozzie-card is only for die-hard-Cards or the cheese-boys … this one is for everybody. That is why he is expensive (and he probably should not be THAT expensive to get) -
You miss the crux of the whole argument though: they didnt have to drop the defense to give him power. This isnt making a 97, they don't have to take one stat away to give to others.
Why does Rickey get to keep his defining elite stealing ability but Ozzie doesnt get his defining elite defense? Especially since they already nerfed his stealing for no reason?
a 99 defense 99 speed/steal Ozzie with 100 power is far better than this [censored] for everyone, but still consistent with moonshot theme.
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@YOSHI24_XBL said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
And yes, it is supposed to be different from a typical Ozzie Card like the 89 (which is waaaaaay worse … in general).
Yes, his 89 is way worse but I would not even say that was a typical Ozzie card as even that card did not have great fielding.
I appreciate you trying to understand my point of view and being reasonable. In the end though, I just think SDS had options to give him a good useable moonshot card and keep his elite defense.
I can't afford both him and Gibson anyway unless prices come way down so in the end I probably won't get Smith since currently he is the more expensive of the two.
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@Dolenz_PSN just wait until the playoffs. Prices will come down heavily. They are inflated af due to the collections (last one
: If you devalue the plus of the moonshot attributes just a little (you will have a significant worse Ozzie card) … just wait it out and you will be the happiest player on the face of the earth -
@Teak2112_MLBTS last one (I just saw that you even created a single post to complain about this) … Rickey was an elite fielder too irl and they took defense from him too … and his card is expensive. And you know what: I do not care, since that is also the best Rickey since 21 (like the Ozzie) … And I P5d every Rickey there ever was. Defense is just not that important in this game as those offensive attributes. Ozzie is a diamond fielder at P5. Yes, at first glance they took „more“ from Ozzie, but these offensive numbers increases weigh way more on Ozzie than on Rickey, who had more power than Ozzie in the first place
Just one last example, I will leave this argument after his, since it is just another „There is somebody wrong on the internet“ … I had Live Series Marte playing SS for me in his secondary. So he took a penalty in defense. At P5 he was a 91 2B, so „under 90“ at SS with the secondary penalty … I would still these defensive numbers if he had better offensive numbers
Offense is way more important than 9 points of fielding when P5ed (you gotta remember: That is your whole argument on this Ozzie moonshot (again, you ignore the theme …).
And last point: You are also one of the reasonable guys here. That is why I tried to make the counter-argument. I will leave it at that
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One last (promised
). I just looked up some other moonshot cards … Look at Larkin and Joe Morgan. Those cards suffered, not Ozzie. These cards are not valid in the field and of course not end-game-worthy… -
Importance is subjective. I don't use Ozzie to hit bombs, I use Ozzie for a high average, steals, and the best defensive SS in baseball history.
I'm not going to not use it if it hits bombs (all cards hit way too many HRs), but I will personally not use it because of that steal rating.
But the meta is switch hitters with power so now everyone has to be identical or the card isnt "useable" I guess.
The real issue is there wasnt a mid tier Ozzie this year. I would use a 100 contact, 90 steal, max defense Ozzie with low power and be quite happy. I prefer mid 90s but we skipped right to 99 this year.
Also yeah Larkin really got screwed. Not all cards need to be endgame worthy but making everyone a DH is for HRD
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@YOSHI24_XBL said in Moonshot 2.0 Reveals:
One last (promised
). I just looked up some other moonshot cards … Look at Larkin and Joe Morgan. Those cards suffered, not Ozzie. These cards are not valid in the field and of course not end-game-worthy…I respect your opinion. I am also kind of done discussing it. As I said I can't afford him now anyway. I'll just continue to work on getting Wetherholt to P5.
I am kind of bummed that they gave me no real incentive to play yesterday.
But I am interested to see what they give us for the HRD X for the Cardinals next week. We know we are getting Wainwright, which I am thrilled with, but I will be curious how they handle him. Will he be a 99 pitcher with good hitting stats or will they do something like make him a DH?
