Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed
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@The_Joneser_PSN said in Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed:
@PScrabro_PSN said in Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed:
Yes... I'm okay with zone for sure. Using timing or directional would make me lose interest in the game quick. Zone is by far the most difficult to master, and should be rewarded the most for good input, because it takes skill to time and locate at the same time. Pressing one button and complaining zone is too easy or too forgiving is ironic at best.
Again with the laziness (it also takes skill to read for comprehension and respond appropriately; perhaps you should take some time and attempt to master that). As I said, locating the PCI is indeed difficult, but the timing aspect of Zone is not particularly difficult at all because it's much more forgiving. If it's skill you want to show, why wouldn't you insist on that? And I don't push any buttons with Timing because I use sticks, but if you're okay with straw men or just not paying attention, then good for you. Personally, I'd shoot for something a little better.
It sounds like you need some practice instead of waste time here debating something like this, because you dont like the timing window of an interface, you dont even use. If you want to use the easiest way to hit, you cant expect to hang in there with good players using zone and actual skill. Get better and maybe move up to the big boy league (flex opportunity
) and use zone.And what are you doing here, exactly, if not debating the merits of an interface that you don't even use? Again, jump into some Ranked games with Timing using Analog Stride and tell me how you do... see, I don't mind losing games as long as the experience is a good one. This game isn't a source of pride for me; I just want the time I spend playing it to feel like real baseball. Some of the games I've enjoyed most have been games I've lost because they were good games. You know what makes for bad games? A lack of hit variety and far too many unrealistic outcomes. I blame the mechanics of Zone for that. If you disagree, how about a cogent argument to the contrary instead of... whatever it is you’re doing.
I wonder if you even realize that people like you, with all your mastery and skill and bluster about doing the most difficult thing possible (in a video game, no less) come off a little bit silly to people who don't put their accomplishments in this game among the great achievements of their life. Maybe you should lobby SDS to make running more difficult (I mean, if you add an interface to control eyeballs, why not insist on controlling feet as another skill?). Then you could laugh at all the people who don't frantically tap the right buttons in the proper cadence and fall in the basepaths, and tell them to practice and get better.
You know, like a big boy would.
Getting no hit, by the CPU, on Veteran, tells me all I need to know about directional hitting.
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@The_Joneser_PSN said in Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed:
@Jacky-Chan1_XBL said in Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed:
There seems to be major timing forgiveness for zone hitting and massive timing penalties for any other hitting. The zone hitting timing forgiveness is unreal. I see replays where guys start their swing when the ball is over the plate and they hit a home run.
Wow. We need to get you in a room with some of the crazies that think every time they lose it must be because their opponent is using directional or timing. That would be a fun time.
Nope the OP is mostly right. The PCI size and flexible hitting window makes it recommended by pros and SDS has given players more benefits for using it. You can hit the ball well outside the zone on lower difficulties and with skill on higher difficulties.
Timing only works better on rookie and veteran but higher difficulties it's recommended using PCI.
There were ranked games I played using timing only where I could only score one run and a few hits. As soon as I changed it to PCI I ended up getting an additional 5 runs. I won the game but I was extremely uncomfortable. I prefer timing vs CPU but against other players I had to switch if I wanted a better chance of winning.
I agree that the OP is partly right... there are definitely some rewards bestowed upon Zone users. I'm not saying they're entirely unwarranted, as it is difficult to place the PCI against anyone who can pitch, but the OP is absolutely correct in that your timing doesn't matter as much in Zone. You need good timing, at least, to get good contact if you’re using the Timing interface; I don't get HRs with early swings, and certainly not late. They just don't happen on AS.
I use Timing with analog inputs, which makes timing a bit different from the way people typically describe it; you do have to swing to location (limited) with analog, using a straight up for middle of the plate, and diagonals for inside/outside. And that choice of swing location matters very much -- always weak contact, or no contact, if you get it wrong. The result: more realistic baseball results, and a more intuitive interface that feels more like a swing. When I win games (I'm only like 6 or 7 over /500 in about 50 games), I score around 5 runs, and they aren't all solo HRs, so I think it's a better experience. Of course I get blanked sometimes... I'm an A's fan, so that also feels like baseball.
Zone allows you to get underneath pitches almost in the dirt and hit them out, which is stupid and makes the game worse, and the forgiveness in timing allows middling players to hit a lot of HRs (and good players to make the game almost unplayable, unless you're into beer league softball). There are times, against spamming pitchers who aren't very good, that I'll switch to Zone and camp in the pitcher's preferred location. Leaving it in Timing in those instances results in the smattering of bad AI placement, so the chances of success go down... but using Zone in those cases turns me into a machine; camped, the placement is there, and with timing being more forgiving, the results are way better (I don't do this often, as not many people are this predictable, and because I hate Zone... and, admittedly, because I'm not that good at Zone when people move the ball around).
Still, that the timing seems to be more forgiving for Zone hitters, at least at AS level, is believable to me because I've experienced it.
I have a couple of counterpoints for you. As you say, zone is more difficult than timing or directional. There are two aspects to zone hitting - pci placement and timing. Directional and timing rely solely on the user's swing timing. To say that zone is more lenient with swing timing is only partially true. Yes, it is true in the sense that you can have slightly off timing and still make good contact, but that is because there is another aspect, the PCI. If you square up the ball with your PCI, you can still make good contact even if you are early or late.
To say that zome is more lenient than timing or directional is misleading though, because they only have one aspect of user input - timing. If you aren't perfect with your timing on those settings, then you didn't do the one thing you are required to do correctly, and therefore should not be rewarded. With zone, if you at least place the PCI correctly, you did one of the two inputs correctly, and should then have a better result than someone who had the same timing input with directional.
On the flip side, with zone, you can have perfect timing, but if your PCI is way off, you can completely whiff. Yes, you can hit pitches out of the zone, but that is a result of getting the PCI to the ball. In my experience, it is very rare that someone actually makes good contact on pitches way out of the zone. It's more of an issue with fouling off those pitches.
Regardless of whether or not you think zone is realistic or not, the fact is that zone is more difficult. When it comes to h2h online play, you have to reward skill, and zone is higher skill, higher reward. If you gave timing and directional the same "leniency" that you say zone has in regards to timing, and all you had to do was have good timing and you could hit any pitch, pitching would be impossible. Offline, who cares, use whatever you want, but online h2h, zone is the only setting that should be competitive at high levels, as it should be.
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@The_Joneser_PSN said in Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed:
@PScrabro_PSN said in Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed:
Yes... I'm okay with zone for sure. Using timing or directional would make me lose interest in the game quick. Zone is by far the most difficult to master, and should be rewarded the most for good input, because it takes skill to time and locate at the same time. Pressing one button and complaining zone is too easy or too forgiving is ironic at best.
Again with the laziness (it also takes skill to read for comprehension and respond appropriately; perhaps you should take some time and attempt to master that). As I said, locating the PCI is indeed difficult, but the timing aspect of Zone is not particularly difficult at all because it's much more forgiving. If it's skill you want to show, why wouldn't you insist on that? And I don't push any buttons with Timing because I use sticks, but if you're okay with straw men or just not paying attention, then good for you. Personally, I'd shoot for something a little better.
It sounds like you need some practice instead of waste time here debating something like this, because you dont like the timing window of an interface, you dont even use. If you want to use the easiest way to hit, you cant expect to hang in there with good players using zone and actual skill. Get better and maybe move up to the big boy league (flex opportunity
) and use zone.And what are you doing here, exactly, if not debating the merits of an interface that you don't even use? Again, jump into some Ranked games with Timing using Analog Stride and tell me how you do... see, I don't mind losing games as long as the experience is a good one. This game isn't a source of pride for me; I just want the time I spend playing it to feel like real baseball. Some of the games I've enjoyed most have been games I've lost because they were good games. You know what makes for bad games? A lack of hit variety and far too many unrealistic outcomes. I blame the mechanics of Zone for that. If you disagree, how about a cogent argument to the contrary instead of... whatever it is you’re doing.
I wonder if you even realize that people like you, with all your mastery and skill and bluster about doing the most difficult thing possible (in a video game, no less) come off a little bit silly to people who don't put their accomplishments in this game among the great achievements of their life. Maybe you should lobby SDS to make running more difficult (I mean, if you add an interface to control eyeballs, why not insist on controlling feet as another skill?). Then you could laugh at all the people who don't frantically tap the right buttons in the proper cadence and fall in the basepaths, and tell them to practice and get better.
You know, like a big boy would.
Where did I say I'm good at hitting? I've played 3 RS games all year so far... lol. Your going off the rails looking for an argument. You should go outside and get some fresh air. I'm sticking to my original comment... use zone or don't complain about it. Im average at best... but I've never complained my opponents are doing better than me because the interface they choose, that's ridiculous since we all can use whatever ones we want.
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@sauciestburrito_PSN said in [Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed]
I have a couple of counterpoints for you. As you say, zone is more difficult than timing or directional. There are two aspects to zone hitting - pci placement and timing. Directional and timing rely solely on the user's swing timing. To say that zone is more lenient with swing timing is only partially true. Yes, it is true in the sense that you can have slightly off timing and still make good contact, but that is because there is another aspect, the PCI. If you square up the ball with your PCI, you can still make good contact even if you are early or late.
To say that zome is more lenient than timing or directional is misleading though, because they only have one aspect of user input - timing. If you aren't perfect with your timing on those settings, then you didn't do the one thing you are required to do correctly, and therefore should not be rewarded. With zone, if you at least place the PCI correctly, you did one of the two inputs correctly, and should then have a better result than someone who had the same timing input with directional.
On the flip side, with zone, you can have perfect timing, but if your PCI is way off, you can completely whiff. Yes, you can hit pitches out of the zone, but that is a result of getting the PCI to the ball. In my experience, it is very rare that someone actually makes good contact on pitches way out of the zone. It's more of an issue with fouling off those pitches.
Regardless of whether or not you think zone is realistic or not, the fact is that zone is more difficult. When it comes to h2h online play, you have to reward skill, and zone is higher skill, higher reward. If you gave timing and directional the same "leniency" that you say zone has in regards to timing, and all you had to do was have good timing and you could hit any pitch, pitching would be impossible. Offline, who cares, use whatever you want, but online h2h, zone is the only setting that should be competitive at high levels, as it should be.
Thanks - I appreciate the well-reasoned response. Of course, I have some counterpoints as well...
While your points about Zone having two aspects to manage are correct, your assessment of Timing, as I use it, is incorrect; I use analog stride, which requires timing the batter's stride, timing the swing to hit the pitch, and a less complicated version of placement (analog "swings" use straight up for a pitch located in the middle, and the diagonals for inside/outside – and that “swing” location matters very much). So, there's much more to it than the swing timing alone, but, and I've already conceded this, none of those aspects (there are three) are, on their own merit, more difficult than properly controlling the PCI.
And my saying that Zone is more lenient than Timing where timing the swing is concerned is absolutely accurate; you do not get good contact with early or late swings when using Timing, let alone HRs. At least on AS or above, it simply doesn't allow you to swing early or late and get good results.
I'm also not advocating for Timing to be any more lenient where swing timing is concerned; I agree with you (it's in the name, after all) that it should be precise in that mode and, if anything, made more difficult than it currently is rather than easier. My contention is that swing timing should be equally important in Zone, despite having to deal with PCI placement.Those who state the inherent difficulty in Zone nearly always go on to say that it's difficult to master and thus, should be more heavily rewarded… I’m not necessarily opposed to this. But mastery involves addressing both aspects of the mechanic; if you place the PCI perfectly, but screw the pooch on the timing, then you have mastered nothing and deserve no reward. That’s my issue… it isn’t that the way I use Timing is too difficult, but that Zone isn’t as difficult as people say it is if it rewards users with poor input where timing is concerned (aren’t many of the complaints from Zone users that bad input is rewarded?). If that’s the case, then people are getting the benefit (high reward) from using Zone without using it well enough to merit that reward.
That’s what I’m saying. Tighten it up, and I think the result will be a widening of the skill gap and it will only benefit truly proficient users of the mechanic while taking that reward away from those who really don’t deserve it.
Me, I’ll go on losing to good Zone players and marvel at their prowess… when deserved. I will keep using Timing (my way) in Ranked, and don’t agree at all with limiting RS to Zone only (if people like me want to handicap ourselves, we should be allowed to; if Zone players can’t beat us, then they don’t deserve wins).
Thanks for not being a jackass and laying out your argument nicely.
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@PScrabro_PSN said in [Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed]
Where did I say I'm good at hitting? I've played 3 RS games all year so far... lol. Your going off the rails looking for an argument. You should go outside and get some fresh air. I'm sticking to my original comment... use zone or don't complain about it. Im average at best... but I've never complained my opponents are doing better than me because the interface they choose, that's ridiculous since we all can use whatever ones we want.
If you really just distilled everything I wrote into me complaining that my opponents are doing better than me, then you're lazier than your lack of comprehension and your poor grammar indicate.
Be well.
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@The_Joneser_PSN said in Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed:
@sauciestburrito_PSN said in [Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed]
I have a couple of counterpoints for you. As you say, zone is more difficult than timing or directional. There are two aspects to zone hitting - pci placement and timing. Directional and timing rely solely on the user's swing timing. To say that zone is more lenient with swing timing is only partially true. Yes, it is true in the sense that you can have slightly off timing and still make good contact, but that is because there is another aspect, the PCI. If you square up the ball with your PCI, you can still make good contact even if you are early or late.
To say that zome is more lenient than timing or directional is misleading though, because they only have one aspect of user input - timing. If you aren't perfect with your timing on those settings, then you didn't do the one thing you are required to do correctly, and therefore should not be rewarded. With zone, if you at least place the PCI correctly, you did one of the two inputs correctly, and should then have a better result than someone who had the same timing input with directional.
On the flip side, with zone, you can have perfect timing, but if your PCI is way off, you can completely whiff. Yes, you can hit pitches out of the zone, but that is a result of getting the PCI to the ball. In my experience, it is very rare that someone actually makes good contact on pitches way out of the zone. It's more of an issue with fouling off those pitches.
Regardless of whether or not you think zone is realistic or not, the fact is that zone is more difficult. When it comes to h2h online play, you have to reward skill, and zone is higher skill, higher reward. If you gave timing and directional the same "leniency" that you say zone has in regards to timing, and all you had to do was have good timing and you could hit any pitch, pitching would be impossible. Offline, who cares, use whatever you want, but online h2h, zone is the only setting that should be competitive at high levels, as it should be.
Thanks - I appreciate the well-reasoned response. Of course, I have some counterpoints as well...
While your points about Zone having two aspects to manage are correct, your assessment of Timing, as I use it, is incorrect; I use analog stride, which requires timing the batter's stride, timing the swing to hit the pitch, and a less complicated version of placement (analog "swings" use straight up for a pitch located in the middle, and the diagonals for inside/outside – and that “swing” location matters very much). So, there's much more to it than the swing timing alone, but, and I've already conceded this, none of those aspects (there are three) are, on their own merit, more difficult than properly controlling the PCI.
And my saying that Zone is more lenient than Timing where timing the swing is concerned is absolutely accurate; you do not get good contact with early or late swings when using Timing, let alone HRs. At least on AS or above, it simply doesn't allow you to swing early or late and get good results.
I'm also not advocating for Timing to be any more lenient where swing timing is concerned; I agree with you (it's in the name, after all) that it should be precise in that mode and, if anything, made more difficult rather than easier. My contention is that swing timing should be equally important in Zone, despite having to deal with PCI placement.
Those who state the inherent difficulty in Zone nearly always go on to say that it's difficult to master and thus, should be more heavily rewarded… I’m not necessarily opposed to this. But mastery involves addressing both aspects of the mechanic; if you place the PCI perfectly, but screw the pooch on the timing, then you have mastered nothing and deserve no reward. That’s my issue… it isn’t that the way I use Timing is too difficult, but that Zone isn’t as difficult as people say it is if it rewards users with poor input where timing is concerned (aren’t many of the complaints from Zone users that bad input is rewarded?). If that’s the case, then people are getting the benefit (high reward) from using Zone without using it well enough to merit that reward.That’s what I’m saying. Tighten it up, and I think the result will be a widening of the skill gap and it will only benefit truly proficient users of the mechanic while taking that reward away from those who really don’t deserve it.
Me, I’ll go on losing to good Zone players and marvel at their prowess… when deserved. I will keep using Timing (my way) in Ranked, and don’t agree at all with limiting RS to Zone only (if people like me want to handicap ourselves, we should be allowed to; if Zone players can’t beat us, then they don’t deserve wins).
Thanks for not being a jackass and laying out your argument nicely.
Absolutely, I see where you're coming from. I think it just comes down to the fact that you have to try and have a level playing field when it comes to online h2h, and zone is just the best way to do that currently. If you're going to let people use different input methods when playing against each other, then you have to reward people for using/mastering the harder method, and punish them for using the easier method. I see what you're saying about people being rewarded for poor input with zone, but I think it's still harder to put bat to ball, and have decent timing, than to simply have perfect timing and point to the right general direction.
The main point of contention seems to be that the PCI negates some of the difficulty of swing timing when using zone, which is true to a degree, but I would argue that it's actually more realistic than solely relying on timing. In real life, you could square up a ball, but be late or early, and you're still gonna hit it hard, just down the line or maybe foul. If all you're relying on is swing timing, there's no bat to ball aspect. Granted, I have not used analog in years, so I can't speak to exactly how it plays, but I think that zone still is gonna have the widest skill gap no matter what. The skill gap would be significantly smaller if timing is the only aspect of user input that matters.
Could the timing aspect of zone be tightened up? Probably. But you're always gonna have some fluky hits no matter what input you're using, and I think the higher the difficulty, the truer it plays. I haven't played a ton of online games yet this year, but from what I have I feel like my good swings are rewarded and my bad ones aren't.
It's not a perfect system, and I don't think it ever will be. Trying to realistically replicate hitting a baseball in a video game is a wild concept when you think about it, but I think at the end of the day, zone offers the most competitive, skill based way to go about hitting in an online h2h environment, even with its flaws.
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@The_Joneser_PSN said in Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed:
@PScrabro_PSN said in [Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed]
Where did I say I'm good at hitting? I've played 3 RS games all year so far... lol. Your going off the rails looking for an argument. You should go outside and get some fresh air. I'm sticking to my original comment... use zone or don't complain about it. Im average at best... but I've never complained my opponents are doing better than me because the interface they choose, that's ridiculous since we all can use whatever ones we want.
If you really just distilled everything I wrote into me complaining that my opponents are doing better than me, then you're lazier than your lack of comprehension and your poor grammar indicate.
Be well.
Git Gud
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@RetroGZY_XBL said in Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed:
There seems to be major timing forgiveness for zone hitting and massive timing penalties for any other hitting. The zone hitting timing forgiveness is unreal. I see replays where guys start their swing when the ball is over the plate and they hit a home run.
Because directional is "easier" to use, timing window is much less lenient.
It's only fair. -
@RetroGZY_XBL said in Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed:
There seems to be major timing forgiveness for zone hitting and massive timing penalties for any other hitting. The zone hitting timing forgiveness is unreal. I see replays where guys start their swing when the ball is over the plate and they hit a home run.
Then you haven't been playing my games today. Every mode seemed to result in an unusually high level of popups to the catcher. Seemingly did not matter where my PCI contacted the ball.
I know it may not be what is actually happening, but there were several that I had that clearly should have been ground outs or at least popped up to a corner infielder. I am not arguing that ANY of them should have been hits, because they were all poorly timed swings, but that's how my gameplay feels today.
Regarding my experience with directional hitting, I feel like it gives the hitter a somewhat powerful boost to exit velocity but opens up holes for a sizeable increase in strikeouts.
I am normally not in SDS' corner on any issue, but I do feel they gave each type of hitting mode strengths and weaknesses.
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@DancinDays_PSN said in Timing and directional hitting are so nerfed:
Everyone thinks everything is broken. The gaming community has no shortage of crybabies.
Nor a shortage of "get gud" bullies either.
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