Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature

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How does it make sense that last year Griffey Sr.’s prime card was a 93, but his new signature series is a 97?

A prime card is based on a players best years, his absolute peak. A signature series card is based on an entire career, down years and all. So how is a player’s signature series card 4 overalls better than his prime card?

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Just a guess, but his prime wasn't where he has his most power, that was a little later when he left the Reds

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In a way, makes all the sense in the world. Griff Sr was a good-not-great player for a long time so the card that stretches over his whole career should be better than one that focuses on his peak, because his peak wasn't that high.

A perfect example of the opposite would be Luis Gonzalez who had a tremendous peak but the rest of his career was average to middling.

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@savefarris_psn said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

In a way, makes all the sense in the world. Griff Sr was a good-not-great player for a long time so the card that stretches over his whole career should be better than one that focuses on his peak, because his peak wasn't that high.

A perfect example of the opposite would be Luis Gonzalez who had a tremendous peak but the rest of his career was average to middling.

I would disagree (only about Griffey, not Gonzalez). A players prime is the absolute best that player can be, so it would only make sense for a prime card to be the highest version a player can get. Adding in stats from the rest of his career should only bring the rating down, since those numbers are guaranteed to be worse overall. I could maybe see if someone like Griffey Sr.’s prime and signature cards were the same overall, but saying his career as a whole is 4 overalls better than his actual best years just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

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@jogger171717_psn said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

@savefarris_psn said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

In a way, makes all the sense in the world. Griff Sr was a good-not-great player for a long time so the card that stretches over his whole career should be better than one that focuses on his peak, because his peak wasn't that high.

A perfect example of the opposite would be Luis Gonzalez who had a tremendous peak but the rest of his career was average to middling.

I would disagree (only about Griffey, not Gonzalez). A players prime is the absolute best that player can be, so it would only make sense for a prime card to be the highest version a player can get. Adding in stats from the rest of his career should only bring the rating down, since those numbers are guaranteed to be worse overall. I could maybe see if someone like Griffey Sr.’s prime and signature cards were the same overall, but saying his career as a whole is 4 overalls better than his actual best years just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

But a signature is mixing and matching stuff, so his power from after his prime combined with his higher average and speed from his prime would make it higher then just his prime which would have less power on the card

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I totally get your argument in theory. But the real answer is: it's late in the game and all releases will be 96 or higher. Maybe they are taking his offspring into account and giving him credit for that hahaha.

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To me this is more of a simple one...was Griffey Sr. really a 97 Signature?

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@eatyum_psn said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

@jogger171717_psn said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

@savefarris_psn said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

In a way, makes all the sense in the world. Griff Sr was a good-not-great player for a long time so the card that stretches over his whole career should be better than one that focuses on his peak, because his peak wasn't that high.

A perfect example of the opposite would be Luis Gonzalez who had a tremendous peak but the rest of his career was average to middling.

I would disagree (only about Griffey, not Gonzalez). A players prime is the absolute best that player can be, so it would only make sense for a prime card to be the highest version a player can get. Adding in stats from the rest of his career should only bring the rating down, since those numbers are guaranteed to be worse overall. I could maybe see if someone like Griffey Sr.’s prime and signature cards were the same overall, but saying his career as a whole is 4 overalls better than his actual best years just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

But a signature is mixing and matching stuff, so his power from after his prime combined with his higher average and speed from his prime would make it higher then just his prime which would have less power on the card

His career ISO is lower than the average ISO of his prime years though. Adding numbers from his worse years should only make the rating go down, not up 4 overalls.

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This is a rare time when late in the year we have a better SR than JR card.

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Johnny Damon Career WAR 56.3
Griffey Sr. Career WAR 34.5

Best 3 year span for Damon 14 WAR
Best 3 year span for Griffey 11.4 WAR

Damon has a 96 Sig and Griffey a 97...not saying Damon should have a 96, but I think it is much more justified than Griffey having a 97.

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what do the stats look like

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You still haven't noticed that Prime cards are the worst of the main 4? They are reserved for relievers and dudes like Ellsbury and Matt Harvey who only had 2 good years. Honus and Cobb last year were the exceptions.

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@crashbowman447_psn said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

Johnny Damon Career WAR 56.3
Griffey Sr. Career WAR 34.5

Best 3 year span for Damon 14 WAR
Best 3 year span for Griffey 11.4 WAR

Damon has a 96 Sig and Griffey a 97...not saying Damon should have a 96, but I think it is much more justified than Griffey having a 97.

Which is really weird when you think about it, considering Griffey Sr had an above average wRC+ in almost every year and Damon, while above average for his career, was less so in that department.

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Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring

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Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring

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Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooourns

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@the_dragon1912 said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

You still haven't noticed that Prime cards are the worst of the main 4? They are reserved for relievers and dudes like Ellsbury and Matt Harvey who only had 2 good years. Honus and Cobb last year were the exceptions.

Joe Morgan's card this year is a Prime and for me he is crazy good.

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@texas10pt_psn said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

@the_dragon1912 said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

You still haven't noticed that Prime cards are the worst of the main 4? They are reserved for relievers and dudes like Ellsbury and Matt Harvey who only had 2 good years. Honus and Cobb last year were the exceptions.

Joe Morgan's card this year is a Prime and for me he is crazy good.

I'm not saying prime cards can't be good, but Morgan's signature card in 19 was better attributes wise no?

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Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring

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@the_dragon1912 said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

@texas10pt_psn said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

@the_dragon1912 said in Ken Griffey Sr. Prime vs Signature:

You still haven't noticed that Prime cards are the worst of the main 4? They are reserved for relievers and dudes like Ellsbury and Matt Harvey who only had 2 good years. Honus and Cobb last year were the exceptions.

Joe Morgan's card this year is a Prime and for me he is crazy good.

I'm not saying prime cards can't be good, but Morgan's signature card in 19 was better attributes wise no?

Prime Morgan has overall better attributes.

2019 SS Joe Morgan:
101 CON R
98 CON L
85 PWR R
72 PWR L
124 Vision
125 DISC
95 Clutch
92 fielding
74 Arm
86 Reaction
94 speed
99 steal

2021 Prime Morgan:
118 CON R
102 CON L
102 PWR R
74 PWR L
111 Vision
125 DISC
110 Clutch
92 fielding
73 Arm
86 Reaction
93 speed
99 steal