Kyle Seager
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
RBI number 92 and 93 today, now tied with Ohtani.
Meanwhile seager now has a 104 wRC+, while ohtani has a 157 wRC+
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What is Ketel Marte’s weighted runs created? I get that he is hitting .400 vs lefties, but he only has 80 or so at bats vs LHP this year, and like 250 total so that avg vs L is carrying a lot of weight.
Besides, where is the formula that says WRC+ equal attributes? Which attribute? Lol.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
What is Ketel Marte’s weighted runs created? I get that he is hitting .400 vs lefties, but he only has 80 or so at bats vs LHP this year, and like 250 total so that avg vs L is carrying a lot of weight.
Besides, where is the formula that says WRC+ equal attributes? Which attribute? Lol.
Ketel Marte’s wRC+ is 145, and yes that’s with a small sample size. If you want to stick to qualified players, then seager is currently at 101 of 138 in terms of wRC+ with 103.
wRC+ isn’t directly correlated to an attribute, but it’s probably the best offensive metric we have. It’s definitely much more useful for determining how good of a hitter someone is, rather than exclusively looking at a guy’s RBI and HR totals, or just his avg with RISP.
wRC+ tells the full story, those things don’t.
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@tgn848_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Agree with you about the 96 card, it’s one of my favorite cards to play with. But our shite franchise gets no respect and we are a miserable bunch of losers. “Be thankful for what you got mariners fans” is a middle finger in our face and I’d fight you over it. Anyway happy Labor Day
Look, it is not overly complicated.
Look at his attributes. His contact and vision are holding his rating back. Now you can argue that SDS's one size fits all rating system is inadequate and that Seager is getting the short end of the stick because of it. Every team probably has a few players that are hurt that way.
But, except for a few special instances and hot players, they feed stats into a program that spits out a rating. I highly doubt that they purposefully ignore teams as much as much as people want to believe that is the case. Now, I do think that they favor a few teams but that is not the same as ignoring the others.
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I don’t disagree, but arguing that rbi and home runs don’t matter is kinda dumb. Seattle won their last two games because Seager came through with an XBH with runners on.
Metrics are good. Winning games is better.
Like why is Joey Gallo, who has less home runs, even lower batting average (below the Mendoza line), and far less rbi, still a gold? You can’t tell me it is because he has stellar defense because he is playing left now.
I have no problem with him being gold. I just think Seager should be too.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
I don’t disagree, but arguing that rbi and home runs don’t matter is kinda dumb. Seattle won their last two games because Seager came through with an XBH with runners on.
Metrics are good. Winning games is better.
Like why is Joey Gallo, who has less home runs, even lower batting average (below the Mendoza line), and far less rbi, still a gold? You can’t tell me it is because he has stellar defense because he is playing left now.RBIs and HRs do matter which is why Seager has good power attributes and a 95 clutch rating. Apparently they are not enough to counteract the very low contact numbers when it comes to his overall.
As for Gallo, first off as someone previously mentioned he has elite defense. 95 arm strength and 99 Arm accuracy in RF is a big deal. Also, it is hard to compare guys who play different positions as their attributes are weighted differently in the overall rating.
If you look at someone like Donaldson who is a gold at 3B and compare him against Seager it looks like Donaldson's better defensive stats and better contact numbers are the difference. I think Seager is hurt badly by a poor Arm Str rating which I would guess is weighted pretty heavy for third basemen.
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We are talking about making him gold NOT diamond. Other than batting average he is near the top in terms of RBI's, HR's. If Joey Gallo can go diamond with his low BA, then Seager can at least go Gold.
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@raider52morrison said in Kyle Seager:
We are talking about making him gold NOT diamond. Other than batting average he is near the top in terms of RBI's, HR's. If Joey Gallo can go diamond with his low BA, then Seager can at least go Gold.
Gallo is an 82, not a diamond. If he had seagers defense then he’d be a silver. Gallo is an elite defender at any position he plays. Gallo has a 4 in WAR. Seager has 2. Gallo has an on base percentage of .379, seager has an obp .288. You want to talk power numbers seager has a slugging percentage .454, Gallo has a .490.
Gallo in all metrics is pretty much ahead of seager.
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We need Seags to come through tonight!
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The idea that Gallo is an elite outfielder defensively is funny. At RF certainly, or CF maybe but the Yankees are playing him in left. He looked awfully shaky out there today.
Also, the idea that Seags has a weak arm is kinda dumb as well. He throws one hoppers to first on certain plays because it is easier to take the nice hop off the grass at T Mobile than to pick one in the dirt. That’s not a weak arm, it’s a veteran move.
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@quinnymcquinn said in Kyle Seager:
Gallo in all metrics is pretty much ahead of seager.
This is the problem with metrics. Gallo has a lower batting average, less home runs, way less rbi. If the argument is that he is gold because he is an “elite” left fielder, I call BS on that.
I think Gallo is gold because he plays for the Yankees.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@quinnymcquinn said in Kyle Seager:
Gallo in all metrics is pretty much ahead of seager.
This is the problem with metrics. Gallo has a lower batting average, less home runs, way less rbi. If the argument is that he is gold because he is an “elite” left fielder, I call BS on that.
I think Gallo is gold because he plays for the Yankees.
How are you this dense? Gallo has a 122 wRC+, Seager has a 103 wRC+
That means Gallo is 22% better than the league average, while seager is only 3%.
With The Show overalls falling into the tiers of common, bronze, silver, gold, and diamond, it makes perfect sense that a guy that’s basically a league-average hitter would fall into the middle silver tier.
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@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@quinnymcquinn said in Kyle Seager:
Gallo in all metrics is pretty much ahead of seager.
This is the problem with metrics. Gallo has a lower batting average, less home runs, way less rbi. If the argument is that he is gold because he is an “elite” left fielder, I call BS on that.
I think Gallo is gold because he plays for the Yankees.
How are you this dense? Gallo has a 122 wRC+, Seager has a 103 wRC+
That means Gallo is 22% better than the league average, while seager is only 3%.
With The Show overalls falling into the tiers of common, bronze, silver, gold, and diamond, it makes perfect sense that a guy that’s basically a league-average hitter would fall into the middle silver tier.
You don’t get it.
I’m not dense either so thanks for trying to make it personal.The only dense thing in this thread is saying that a guy fifth in the league in rbi and sixth in the league in home runs is a “league average” hitter. You guys need to watch more games and look less at sabermetric stats. You’ll be 22% better at evaluating player value.
It’s only a matter of time before SDS makes Seager a LS gold anyway.
Dense. Wow dude.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@quinnymcquinn said in Kyle Seager:
Gallo in all metrics is pretty much ahead of seager.
This is the problem with metrics. Gallo has a lower batting average, less home runs, way less rbi. If the argument is that he is gold because he is an “elite” left fielder, I call BS on that.
I think Gallo is gold because he plays for the Yankees.
How are you this dense? Gallo has a 122 wRC+, Seager has a 103 wRC+
That means Gallo is 22% better than the league average, while seager is only 3%.
With The Show overalls falling into the tiers of common, bronze, silver, gold, and diamond, it makes perfect sense that a guy that’s basically a league-average hitter would fall into the middle silver tier.
You don’t get it.
I’m not dense either so thanks for trying to make it personal.The only dense thing in this thread is saying that a guy fifth in the league in rbi and sixth in the league in home runs in a “league average” hitter. You guys need to watch more games and look less at sabermetric stats.
It’s only a matter of time before SDS makes Seager a LS gold anyway.
Dense. Wow dude.
The fact that you either keep ignoring Seager’s wRC+ or just can’t be bothered to understand what it actually means is what makes you dense. He has not been a good hitter this year. We aren’t in 2016 anymore, when he had a 134 wRC+. RBI totals don’t tell if a guy is good at hitting or not. A routine ground ball or weak pop fly can result in an RBI. Hitting home runs is great, but it doesn’t automatically mean a guy is a good offensive player, especially if that’s literally the only thing they’re capable of doing. Seager’s home runs just simply aren’t enough to outweigh all of his other flaws.
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@halfbutt_PSN
Kyle Seager has had a .204 average for the last month. Calling him league average is being generous right now. I like him and don't think he's as bad as this stretch but there is no world in which he currently deserves a gold unless he cranked an ungodly number of HRs -
@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@quinnymcquinn said in Kyle Seager:
Gallo in all metrics is pretty much ahead of seager.
This is the problem with metrics. Gallo has a lower batting average, less home runs, way less rbi. If the argument is that he is gold because he is an “elite” left fielder, I call BS on that.
I think Gallo is gold because he plays for the Yankees.
How are you this dense? Gallo has a 122 wRC+, Seager has a 103 wRC+
That means Gallo is 22% better than the league average, while seager is only 3%.
With The Show overalls falling into the tiers of common, bronze, silver, gold, and diamond, it makes perfect sense that a guy that’s basically a league-average hitter would fall into the middle silver tier.
You don’t get it.
I’m not dense either so thanks for trying to make it personal.The only dense thing in this thread is saying that a guy fifth in the league in rbi and sixth in the league in home runs in a “league average” hitter. You guys need to watch more games and look less at sabermetric stats.
It’s only a matter of time before SDS makes Seager a LS gold anyway.
Dense. Wow dude.
The fact that you either keep ignoring Seager’s wRC+ or just can’t be bothered to understand what it actually means is what makes you dense. He has not been a good hitter this year. We aren’t in 2016 anymore, when he had a 134 wRC+. RBI totals don’t tell if a guy is good at hitting or not. A routine ground ball or weak pop fly can result in an RBI. Hitting home runs is great, but it doesn’t automatically mean a guy is a good offensive player, especially if that’s literally the only thing they’re capable of doing. Seager’s home runs just simply aren’t enough to outweigh all of his other flaws.
I’m not an idiot. I understand what wRC+ is.
I just think it is funny that you guys view Seager as a flawed player.If he were on another team, I think it is a solid bet that he’d be gold, but I’m ok with it.
This is the problem with looking at statistics out of context. Look at Ohtani. His numbers are staggering but his team is in the cellar.
What is that wRC+ really worth?
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
The only dense thing in this thread is saying that a guy fifth in the league in rbi and sixth in the league in home runs is a “league average” hitter.
You are looking at two stats and ignoring everything else. Yes, in all of baseball he may be 8th in HRs and 8th in RBI's. He already has the power ratings and clutch ratings to show that. You want everyone to look at just those two numbers and explain his current rating. Everyone else is looking at the whole picture.
Out of a total of 138 qualifying batters he ranks 135 in batting average. Three spots from the bottom.
Out of a total of 138 qualifying batters he ranks 131 in On Base Percentage
That is two important categories where he is in the top 10 in baseball and two important categories where he is in the bottom 10 in all of baseball. You seem to be the one that wants to just throw out the categories where he is deficient and only concentrate on the two categories where he excels.
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How much are you invested in Kyle seager?
As a Mariners fan I am extremely disappointed he’s still regressing. I thought he hit his low in batting average but just over 200 on the year, yikes. Yes home runs but so many useless at bats. Honestly I’ve seen a lot of his at bats look down right terrible. He will not do well in free agency next year. -
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@quinnymcquinn said in Kyle Seager:
Gallo in all metrics is pretty much ahead of seager.
This is the problem with metrics. Gallo has a lower batting average, less home runs, way less rbi. If the argument is that he is gold because he is an “elite” left fielder, I call BS on that.
I think Gallo is gold because he plays for the Yankees.
How are you this dense? Gallo has a 122 wRC+, Seager has a 103 wRC+
That means Gallo is 22% better than the league average, while seager is only 3%.
With The Show overalls falling into the tiers of common, bronze, silver, gold, and diamond, it makes perfect sense that a guy that’s basically a league-average hitter would fall into the middle silver tier.
You don’t get it.
I’m not dense either so thanks for trying to make it personal.The only dense thing in this thread is saying that a guy fifth in the league in rbi and sixth in the league in home runs in a “league average” hitter. You guys need to watch more games and look less at sabermetric stats.
It’s only a matter of time before SDS makes Seager a LS gold anyway.
Dense. Wow dude.
The fact that you either keep ignoring Seager’s wRC+ or just can’t be bothered to understand what it actually means is what makes you dense. He has not been a good hitter this year. We aren’t in 2016 anymore, when he had a 134 wRC+. RBI totals don’t tell if a guy is good at hitting or not. A routine ground ball or weak pop fly can result in an RBI. Hitting home runs is great, but it doesn’t automatically mean a guy is a good offensive player, especially if that’s literally the only thing they’re capable of doing. Seager’s home runs just simply aren’t enough to outweigh all of his other flaws.
I’m not an idiot. I understand what wRC+ is.
I just think it is funny that you guys view Seager as a flawed player.If he were on another team, I think it is a solid bet that he’d be gold, but I’m ok with it.
This is the problem with looking at statistics out of context. Look at Ohtani. His numbers are staggering but his team is in the cellar.
What is that wRC+ really worth?
We view Seager as a flawed player because he is a flawed player. If you actually understood what having a 103 wRC+ means, you would too.
Out of context? Comparing an incredibly small sample size to a full season and saying both player’s stats hold the same weight would be using statistics out of context. Simply showing that Kyle Seager’s statistics are bad to slightly above average isn’t looking at them out of context, it’s just looking at them.
I’m not sure what Ohtani has to do with this. Does being on a bad team somehow devalue his stats to you? Should trout have never won any MVPs because he played on a bad team? I really don’t understand where you were going with that. Seager = not very good, ohtani = very good, and team records are irrelevant to what those two individual players do.
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@lberrybats77_psn said in Kyle Seager:
How much are you invested in Kyle seager?
As a Mariners fan I am extremely disappointed he’s still regressing. I thought he hit his low in batting average but just over 200 on the year, yikes. Yes home runs but so many useless at bats. Honestly I’ve seen a lot of his at bats look down right terrible. He will not do well in free agency next year.I’m not that invested in him, honestly, and yes, he had some disappointing at bats tonight.
I’m more just questioning the way player OVR is “calculated”.
Sure, we can look at all sorts of stats and find ways to support a lot of points of view.
Looking at all the LS 3b, there are not many that are gold. Somehow, Rendon is still gold but to be fair, he has been hurt forever.
The point was made earlier that Seager already has near to max Clutch attributes. His power is 79/89 and he is playing up 11. How much more would his power need to go up?
One thing that really stands out looking at Gallo’s card is his 125 discipline. Isn’t discipline related to k’s? His power is 100/92. I’m assuming the power attribute is based on some other metric than home runs ?
