Kyle Seager
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6 rbi tonight, 12 since the 22nd August. Maybe fangraphs has yet to update.
You make a good point. If his clutch is 95, that attribute wouldn’t get him past 79.
I think maybe there is something lacking in the way the attributes convert to OVR.
I was thinking, for example, Ketel Marte has 10 home runs, 49 rbi on the year. He’s hitting a solid .337 (albeit in half as many at bats as Seags) and is a LS diamond.
To me, this doesn’t add up.
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Seags is being ignored by SDS, plain and simple
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@tgn848_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Seags is being ignored by SDS, plain and simple
Let’s hope the rest of the league keeps ignoring him too (and pitching to him).
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
I think maybe there is something lacking in the way the attributes convert to OVR.
That is probably true. Like I said though you are talking about how clutch Seager is and they do have a stat for that and it is his highest offensive attribute. How much it should contribute to the overall rating in comparison to the other attributes is all in SDS's court.
Adam Wainwright is the 9th best pitcher in the majors this year according to Fangraphs (by War). He is still a 79. Nathan Eovaldi is having a year very similar to Walker Beuhler and is the 5th best pitcher this year and he is a 79. Part of it is that these guys are coming off down years. But a big part of it is that Wainwright does not do it by striking a lot of guys out. He has a 57 k/9 rating and that really tanks him.
Oh, and while we are talking about clutch. Here is a stat that I was shocked to find out. Matt Carpenter is one of the best bases loaded hitters of all time. His batting average with the bases loaded in his career is .492 with an OPS of 1.214
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@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
His batting average with the bases loaded in his career is .492 with an OPS of 1.214
That is the definition of a clutch player!
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@halfbutt_PSN
I think Marte is a little higher than he should be but he is batting over .400 against lefties this year so his contact vs lefties is 125 in the game which alone boosts his overall and on top of that he's hitting over .300 vs righties as well. -
I am not so much saying Ketel is undeserving as just questioning the whole thing.
I mean I have the Signature Seager so it doesn’t really matter that his LS remains silver.
It seems to me, and I guess this is my underlying point here, that the OVR ratings are pretty arbitrary.
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As a Mariner fan I have to agree. Kyle has become basically a one tool player. He has great power numbers this year, and he’s definitely been clutch, but everything else offensively is below average. Then add to that he’s basically a replacement level defensive player and making him gold is a tough sell. JP Crawford to gold is the much better argument.
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@halfbutt_PSN
They have never fully come out and said exactly how weighted each stat is. I know for each position some things like defense matter more and lesser hitting stats will still get you an upgrade if you're a good defender. I'm pretty sure contact and power vs righties is weighted higher than contact and power vs lefties.Obviously for something like this they can't give us the exact way the numbers transfer otherwise someone would be able to work out an algorithm to always figure out who's getting an upgrade but I wish we could get a little more info on it.
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RBI number 92 and 93 today, now tied with Ohtani.
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Just use his 96, I think that was cool they gave him that, be thankful for what you got Mariners fans
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@collintacoz09_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Just use his 96, I think that was cool they gave him that, be thankful for what you got Mariners fans
Why don’t you shut the hell up
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Hey man. I like the card. No need to get so worked up about it. Personally, I DO think Seager should go gold. He has 3 good options for any type of player. Didn’t mean to touch a nerve. Sorry
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Agree with you about the 96 card, it’s one of my favorite cards to play with. But our shite franchise gets no respect and we are a miserable bunch of losers. “Be thankful for what you got mariners fans” is a middle finger in our face and I’d fight you over it. Anyway happy Labor Day
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
RBI number 92 and 93 today, now tied with Ohtani.
Meanwhile seager now has a 104 wRC+, while ohtani has a 157 wRC+
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What is Ketel Marte’s weighted runs created? I get that he is hitting .400 vs lefties, but he only has 80 or so at bats vs LHP this year, and like 250 total so that avg vs L is carrying a lot of weight.
Besides, where is the formula that says WRC+ equal attributes? Which attribute? Lol.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
What is Ketel Marte’s weighted runs created? I get that he is hitting .400 vs lefties, but he only has 80 or so at bats vs LHP this year, and like 250 total so that avg vs L is carrying a lot of weight.
Besides, where is the formula that says WRC+ equal attributes? Which attribute? Lol.
Ketel Marte’s wRC+ is 145, and yes that’s with a small sample size. If you want to stick to qualified players, then seager is currently at 101 of 138 in terms of wRC+ with 103.
wRC+ isn’t directly correlated to an attribute, but it’s probably the best offensive metric we have. It’s definitely much more useful for determining how good of a hitter someone is, rather than exclusively looking at a guy’s RBI and HR totals, or just his avg with RISP.
wRC+ tells the full story, those things don’t.
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@tgn848_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Agree with you about the 96 card, it’s one of my favorite cards to play with. But our shite franchise gets no respect and we are a miserable bunch of losers. “Be thankful for what you got mariners fans” is a middle finger in our face and I’d fight you over it. Anyway happy Labor Day
Look, it is not overly complicated.
Look at his attributes. His contact and vision are holding his rating back. Now you can argue that SDS's one size fits all rating system is inadequate and that Seager is getting the short end of the stick because of it. Every team probably has a few players that are hurt that way.
But, except for a few special instances and hot players, they feed stats into a program that spits out a rating. I highly doubt that they purposefully ignore teams as much as much as people want to believe that is the case. Now, I do think that they favor a few teams but that is not the same as ignoring the others.
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I don’t disagree, but arguing that rbi and home runs don’t matter is kinda dumb. Seattle won their last two games because Seager came through with an XBH with runners on.
Metrics are good. Winning games is better.
Like why is Joey Gallo, who has less home runs, even lower batting average (below the Mendoza line), and far less rbi, still a gold? You can’t tell me it is because he has stellar defense because he is playing left now.
I have no problem with him being gold. I just think Seager should be too.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
I don’t disagree, but arguing that rbi and home runs don’t matter is kinda dumb. Seattle won their last two games because Seager came through with an XBH with runners on.
Metrics are good. Winning games is better.
Like why is Joey Gallo, who has less home runs, even lower batting average (below the Mendoza line), and far less rbi, still a gold? You can’t tell me it is because he has stellar defense because he is playing left now.RBIs and HRs do matter which is why Seager has good power attributes and a 95 clutch rating. Apparently they are not enough to counteract the very low contact numbers when it comes to his overall.
As for Gallo, first off as someone previously mentioned he has elite defense. 95 arm strength and 99 Arm accuracy in RF is a big deal. Also, it is hard to compare guys who play different positions as their attributes are weighted differently in the overall rating.
If you look at someone like Donaldson who is a gold at 3B and compare him against Seager it looks like Donaldson's better defensive stats and better contact numbers are the difference. I think Seager is hurt badly by a poor Arm Str rating which I would guess is weighted pretty heavy for third basemen.
