The Cleveland Baseball Team....
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@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@TheGoaler said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
I just read they're keeping 'Indians' for the 2021 season.
That kind of defeats the purpose, no?I think this shows it is more about money than the principle behind it. I imagine it would cost more to change a logo for one season then do it again the following season. Also, let's be honest here. I think most Tribe fans are much more likely to buy Indians gear this upcoming season than Cleveland Baseball Team gear. Again, it seems mostly about money and optics which is pretty sad.
So it's a publicity stunt then? Like what Ihop did for their burger promos (IHOB)?
Possibly but money is the #1 driver here whether that is the merchandise situation I mentioned earlier losing sponsors or ticket sales because of continuing to use the nickname Indians. There are likely several reasons for the change but money is king. The Redskins is example numero uno.
I think the major reason for ticket sale loss is the pandemic plus MLB's already-present ticket sale/attendance problem
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@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@TheGoaler said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
I just read they're keeping 'Indians' for the 2021 season.
That kind of defeats the purpose, no?I think this shows it is more about money than the principle behind it. I imagine it would cost more to change a logo for one season then do it again the following season. Also, let's be honest here. I think most Tribe fans are much more likely to buy Indians gear this upcoming season than Cleveland Baseball Team gear. Again, it seems mostly about money and optics which is pretty sad.
So it's a publicity stunt then? Like what Ihop did for their burger promos (IHOB)?
Possibly but money is the #1 driver here whether that is the merchandise situation I mentioned earlier losing sponsors or ticket sales because of continuing to use the nickname Indians. There are likely several reasons for the change but money is king. The Redskins is example numero uno.
I think the major reason for ticket sale loss is the pandemic plus MLB's already-present ticket sale/attendance problem
Not disagreeing just stating that any sort of revenue loss is certainly looked at with these name changes. I doubt ticket sales is very high on that list but I'd bet there are a few folks that wouldn't buy tickets because of the use of the term Indians.
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@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
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@NCstatehokie
You are not really behind your own argument of against telling others what they should or shouldn’t be offended. If you were staunch in your beliefs or a person of principle, you would not be posting on these forums. By agreeing to post on these forums and accepting the TOS, you freely admit to censorship and a degree of being told how you should think/behave/act on these forums.
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@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCstatehokie
You are not really behind your own argument of against telling others what they should or shouldn’t be offended. If you were staunch in your beliefs or a person of principle, you would not be posting on these forums. By agreeing to post on these forums and accepting the TOS, you freely admit to censorship and a degree of being told how you should think/behave/act on these forums.
You are not a moderator, so I believe your citation of the TOS is irrelevant, and your "holier than thou" lecturing of someone who has opinions that are different from your own isn't cool at all.
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
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@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
Ok, I got you now. Appreciate it.
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
Interesting interpretation of the phrase but accurate. Personally when I hear that phrase I don't think factually right, I think morally. Example: Nazis are on the wrong side of history because they were objectively the bad guys to anyone but them. Again, that is just how I interpret the phrase, nothing wrong with your interpretation I was just trying to offer a different use in case that was how people here were using it.
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@mjfc_363 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
The Chicago Blackhawks work with Native American tribes to help educate the public. It can be done and IS done!!
Bingo. The ACC Network did a great show about how the Seminole nation is honored to have FSU represent them and use their name.
Being racist is egregious but so is a group of people telling another group of people what is best for them or that their way is better.
EXACTLY. This is what I was trying to say in my earlier posts. People who are not Native American deciding what is best for Native Americans is the same thing as, for example, Andrew Jackson deciding what was best for them way back when.
Reservations and Trail of Tears, anyone?
Couldnt agree more!!
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@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
Interesting interpretation of the phrase but accurate. Personally when I hear that phrase I don't think factually right, I think morally. Example: Nazis are on the wrong side of history because they were objectively the bad guys to anyone but them. Again, that is just how I interpret the phrase, nothing wrong with your interpretation I was just trying to offer a different use in case that was how people here were using it.
A saying or phrase can take on different meanings and usage through out the years. A historian I would think would know that . Holocaust happened , that is history. People who fought against it , would be on “the right side of history “. The nazi , yeah , you get the point .
There is a literal interpretation of a word or saying or phrase and there is a implied meaning.
Nice try though Mr Historian. You can keep on the Nazi side ( good people in both sides ring a bell ). I’ll stick to the right side and against oppression and the exploitation of people .
Quoted one person but this is really towards The Doctors Wife
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@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
Interesting interpretation of the phrase but accurate. Personally when I hear that phrase I don't think factually right, I think morally. Example: Nazis are on the wrong side of history because they were objectively the bad guys to anyone but them. Again, that is just how I interpret the phrase, nothing wrong with your interpretation I was just trying to offer a different use in case that was how people here were using it.
I understand your viewpoint on the phrase. My thoughts on it are as follows: History and the passage of time doesn't really have a moral compass—if it did, notoriously bad things that occurred in the past wouldn't have happened, and vise-versa. That's why I feel the term "right side of history" is misleading in a sense. A person can believe that they're on the "right side" because they believe they're doing "the right thing" but could in fact be doing bad stuff.
Is what I'm saying making sense? I had some wine this evening and want to check.
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@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
Interesting interpretation of the phrase but accurate. Personally when I hear that phrase I don't think factually right, I think morally. Example: Nazis are on the wrong side of history because they were objectively the bad guys to anyone but them. Again, that is just how I interpret the phrase, nothing wrong with your interpretation I was just trying to offer a different use in case that was how people here were using it.
A saying or phrase can take on different meanings and usage through out the years. A historian I would think would know that . Holocaust happened , that is history. People who fought against it , would be on “the right side of history “. The nazi , yeah , you get the point .
There is a literal interpretation of a word or saying or phrase and there is a implied meaning.
Nice try though Mr Historian. You can keep on the Nazi side ( good people in both sides ring a bell ). I’ll stick to the right side and against oppression and the exploitation of people .
Quoted one person but this is really towards The Doctors Wife
I'm a woman, thank you very much. So "Ms. Historian".
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
Interesting interpretation of the phrase but accurate. Personally when I hear that phrase I don't think factually right, I think morally. Example: Nazis are on the wrong side of history because they were objectively the bad guys to anyone but them. Again, that is just how I interpret the phrase, nothing wrong with your interpretation I was just trying to offer a different use in case that was how people here were using it.
I understand your viewpoint on the phrase. My thoughts on it are as follows: History and the passage of time doesn't really have a moral compass—if it did, notoriously bad things that occurred in the past wouldn't have happened, and vise-versa. That's why I feel the term "right side of history" is misleading in a sense. A person can believe that they're on the "right side" because they believe they're doing "the right thing" but could in fact be doing bad stuff.
Is what I'm saying making sense? I had some wine this evening and want to check.
We get what you are trying to say , in a literal sense , you are not wrong. The world doesn’t operate in that way. People thoughts and actions are most of the time based on history and how history will judge us. There is a reason why there is so many phrases using history
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@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
Interesting interpretation of the phrase but accurate. Personally when I hear that phrase I don't think factually right, I think morally. Example: Nazis are on the wrong side of history because they were objectively the bad guys to anyone but them. Again, that is just how I interpret the phrase, nothing wrong with your interpretation I was just trying to offer a different use in case that was how people here were using it.
I understand your viewpoint on the phrase. My thoughts on it are as follows: History and the passage of time doesn't really have a moral compass—if it did, notoriously bad things that occurred in the past wouldn't have happened, and vise-versa. That's why I feel the term "right side of history" is misleading in a sense. A person can believe that they're on the "right side" because they believe they're doing "the right thing" but could in fact be doing bad stuff.
Is what I'm saying making sense? I had some wine this evening and want to check.
We get what you are trying to say , in a literal sense , you are not wrong. The world doesn’t operate in that way. People thoughts and actions are most of the time based on history and how history will judge us. There is a reason why there is so many phrases using history
Ah, I'm glad we have an understanding on that front.
Just one question: Are you referring to me as a "Nazi"? Simply because I have an opinion that differs from yours?
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
Interesting interpretation of the phrase but accurate. Personally when I hear that phrase I don't think factually right, I think morally. Example: Nazis are on the wrong side of history because they were objectively the bad guys to anyone but them. Again, that is just how I interpret the phrase, nothing wrong with your interpretation I was just trying to offer a different use in case that was how people here were using it.
A saying or phrase can take on different meanings and usage through out the years. A historian I would think would know that . Holocaust happened , that is history. People who fought against it , would be on “the right side of history “. The nazi , yeah , you get the point .
There is a literal interpretation of a word or saying or phrase and there is a implied meaning.
Nice try though Mr Historian. You can keep on the Nazi side ( good people in both sides ring a bell ). I’ll stick to the right side and against oppression and the exploitation of people .
Quoted one person but this is really towards The Doctors Wife
I'm a woman, thank you very much. So "Ms. Historian".
Just one question: Are you referring to me as a "Nazi"? Simply because I have an opinion that differs from yours?
My apologies,
For the Mr part
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
Interesting interpretation of the phrase but accurate. Personally when I hear that phrase I don't think factually right, I think morally. Example: Nazis are on the wrong side of history because they were objectively the bad guys to anyone but them. Again, that is just how I interpret the phrase, nothing wrong with your interpretation I was just trying to offer a different use in case that was how people here were using it.
I understand your viewpoint on the phrase. My thoughts on it are as follows: History and the passage of time doesn't really have a moral compass—if it did, notoriously bad things that occurred in the past wouldn't have happened, and vise-versa. That's why I feel the term "right side of history" is misleading in a sense. A person can believe that they're on the "right side" because they believe they're doing "the right thing" but could in fact be doing bad stuff.
Is what I'm saying making sense? I had some wine this evening and want to check.
Yes I agree that everyone always believes that they are fighting for a righteous cause. I don’t think anyone can say in the moment whether or not they are on the 'right side of history' because you never know the long term unintended consequences of what could be pure intentions. I tend to view it more as a past tense phrase, we can look back and see now what the ride side was but in the moment a lot of the time there is a lot of gray area. Except when it comes to genocide, anyone committing genocide is always the bad guys.
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@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
Interesting interpretation of the phrase but accurate. Personally when I hear that phrase I don't think factually right, I think morally. Example: Nazis are on the wrong side of history because they were objectively the bad guys to anyone but them. Again, that is just how I interpret the phrase, nothing wrong with your interpretation I was just trying to offer a different use in case that was how people here were using it.
I understand your viewpoint on the phrase. My thoughts on it are as follows: History and the passage of time doesn't really have a moral compass—if it did, notoriously bad things that occurred in the past wouldn't have happened, and vise-versa. That's why I feel the term "right side of history" is misleading in a sense. A person can believe that they're on the "right side" because they believe they're doing "the right thing" but could in fact be doing bad stuff.
Is what I'm saying making sense? I had some wine this evening and want to check.
Yes I agree that everyone always believes that they are fighting for a righteous cause. I don’t think anyone can say in the moment whether or not they are on the 'right side of history' because you never know the long term unintended consequences of what could be pure intentions. I tend to view it more as a past tense phrase, we can look back and see now what the ride side was but in the moment a lot of the time there is a lot of gray area. Except when it comes to genocide, anyone committing genocide is always the bad guys.
So can we agree that Americans were bad guys. Since Americans did try to commit genocide on Native Americans. Reflecting back on the past history in America and Native Americans, the use of Indians and exploiting is even worse looking.
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@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@writetoshawn said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
No these 2 things haven't "flew" over my head. Maybe you misread something. Me not being offended by those 3 words above is just my opinion and I recognize that opinion means nothing. I am well aware that there are plenty of others that may be offended by them. I agree that it is a slippery slope but thanks for assuming that I didn't.
I am well aware that Native Americans and people from India (Indians) are not the same thing. It doesn't bother me one bit that Cleveland is changing its nickname. If that organization and actual Native Americans want that change then by all means go for it!! As I have pointed out several times in this thread I don't agree with people telling others what they should think, how they should think, or what they should or shouldn't be offended by. Perfect example is your response above. Assumptions aren't good for anyone.
It is cumulative of your posts in this thread is what I was attacking. There is no grey area , the point is that just because you are not offended doesn’t make it ok. There is a right side of history and a wrong side.
Name needs to be changed , period. No excuse, no buts, no what if’s. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Only thing that has changed is minorities have a lot more power than they had before ( which wasn’t much at all )
As a historian I'd like to point out that history is history. It is skewed at times, but in the end, it is still history. There is no wrong or right side of facts imo.
Were you aiming for ambiguity here? There were 3 sentences written and I can’t identify one assertion made. No salt; just an observation.
Kind of? I just think the phrase "right side of history" is inaccurate. There is historical accuracy and adhering to facts, yes, but there is no right or wrong side of it to be on. History is as it is written, whether you like it or not, is what I'm trying to say.
I've heard the phrase thrown around a lot. To say one is on the wrong side of history is to say "I'm right, you're backward and wrong, so get with the program." Which is kind of rude when it's used against someone else's opinion.
Let me know if I need to clarify further.
Interesting interpretation of the phrase but accurate. Personally when I hear that phrase I don't think factually right, I think morally. Example: Nazis are on the wrong side of history because they were objectively the bad guys to anyone but them. Again, that is just how I interpret the phrase, nothing wrong with your interpretation I was just trying to offer a different use in case that was how people here were using it.
I understand your viewpoint on the phrase. My thoughts on it are as follows: History and the passage of time doesn't really have a moral compass—if it did, notoriously bad things that occurred in the past wouldn't have happened, and vise-versa. That's why I feel the term "right side of history" is misleading in a sense. A person can believe that they're on the "right side" because they believe they're doing "the right thing" but could in fact be doing bad stuff.
Is what I'm saying making sense? I had some wine this evening and want to check.
Yes I agree that everyone always believes that they are fighting for a righteous cause. I don’t think anyone can say in the moment whether or not they are on the 'right side of history' because you never know the long term unintended consequences of what could be pure intentions. I tend to view it more as a past tense phrase, we can look back and see now what the ride side was but in the moment a lot of the time there is a lot of gray area. Except when it comes to genocide, anyone committing genocide is always the bad guys.
So can we agree that Americans were bad guys. Since Americans did try to commit genocide on Native Americans. Reflecting back on the past history in America and Native Americans, the use of Indians and exploiting is even worse looking.
I profoundly disagree that we as Americans are "the bad guys." If we were, millions of immigrants wouldn't be flocking here to enjoy being in the freest country in the world.
Now is American history spotless and flawless? No, of course not. Nobody is perfect. But screwing over Native Americans was mostly Andrew Jackson's thing.
