To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
I don’t know bud, I’m not a top 50 player or even top 100 but I still maintain a 3.40 or so ERA and I make it to the 800’s regularly and occasionally the 900’s when im hitting good. What I do is study my opponents through the game. I usually give up the majority of my runs in the first few innings. Once I have seen their tendencies I make my adjustments and usually pitch pretty well. Another thing is I never give in. Regardless of the count. You will not get a fastball down the middle. So I tend to walk more people than normal.
According to many here, that’s impossible... the forces fastballs down the middle apparently
Sorry, can’t say that I have had that issue and I’ve played the game since day 1. When I hang a pitch I’m usually at fault for doing it by missing the spot I was aiming for.
That’s what I keep telling them too but they’re extremely skeptical
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@maurice91932 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@MHHW33 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
Pitching is broken is why the era is so high for anyone that plays above 800. I use analog and can be perfect on my release and aim, the ball will then end up in the middle of the zone, or even in the zone. The black isn’t given this year. I can make perfect pitches and they’re called a ball. Outer pci is broke, I can foul off pitches nowhere near my pci, it’s a way to bail out people that are swinging at bad pitches. Then check swings need to be toned way down. I can check swing on pitches all game even when I’m fooled horribly.
This is it right here. Pitching needs fixing. In addition to everything said here, it’s just plain too difficult to execute your pitch. Whatever interface you use doesn’t matter. I believe it should be easier to dot pitches.
Also, everyone knows now not to chase until two strikes. Everyone just waits on the inevitable hanger. If you don’t have two strikes and a pitch isn’t right down the middle, don’t swing. And because the umpires don’t give the pitcher the black, the hitters have an enormous advantage.
Pitching isn't broken but merely working as they have designed it. They've altered analog pitching to the point it's in line with the other inputs as far as RNG is concerned. I've been pitching better lately trying to focus on individual pitch confidences and pitch selection. If I have to throw a strike I'm picking a pitch with high confidence. I try not to over expose the 3rd, 4th, and 5th pitches either. The more those are thrown, the greater chance it seems they will hang despite acceptable input. I don't like it, considering on the hitting input side they don't nerf zone to be like analog and directional.
The one problem I have had this year is the strikezone. It had been variable the last few years which I preferred. This year the zone is the same and it is extremely hitter friendly. 50/50 balls rarely go against the hitter. Executed pitches on the corners not getting called forces people into the zone too much. You can pepper outside the zone against an undisciplined opponent, but eventually the game kicks in and they'll start fouling everything off or check swing everytime. If the strikezone is to be perfect, then it should follow the rulebook.
In regards to the OP, if they programmed the game to make the top players have realistic states you would not enjoy the game. The pitch speeds, movement, and PCI reductions needed to affect those guys would have me playing blindfolded.
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@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
I don’t know bud, I’m not a top 50 player or even top 100 but I still maintain a 3.40 or so ERA and I make it to the 800’s regularly and occasionally the 900’s when im hitting good. What I do is study my opponents through the game. I usually give up the majority of my runs in the first few innings. Once I have seen their tendencies I make my adjustments and usually pitch pretty well. Another thing is I never give in. Regardless of the count. You will not get a fastball down the middle. So I tend to walk more people than normal.
According to many here, that’s impossible... the forces fastballs down the middle apparently
Sorry, can’t say that I have had that issue and I’ve played the game since day 1. When I hang a pitch I’m usually at fault for doing it by missing the spot I was aiming for.
That’s what I keep telling them too but they’re extremely skeptical
I wouldn’t worry about it. Most people who complain do it for the sake of doing it and refuse to take responsibility for their actions. There isn’t anything you can do about it so just ignore them and move on. Like I said before, the issues that I have with the game are usually of my own doing. Having watched several twitch streamers who are pretty good players complain about pitching when they were clearly at fault for what happened to them just solidifies my position that most of the issues in this game are user error. I also find it much less stressful when I stopped blaming “rng” for my shortcomings in the game.
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
I don’t know bud, I’m not a top 50 player or even top 100 but I still maintain a 3.40 or so ERA and I make it to the 800’s regularly and occasionally the 900’s when im hitting good. What I do is study my opponents through the game. I usually give up the majority of my runs in the first few innings. Once I have seen their tendencies I make my adjustments and usually pitch pretty well. Another thing is I never give in. Regardless of the count. You will not get a fastball down the middle. So I tend to walk more people than normal.
According to many here, that’s impossible... the forces fastballs down the middle apparently
Sorry, can’t say that I have had that issue and I’ve played the game since day 1. When I hang a pitch I’m usually at fault for doing it by missing the spot I was aiming for.
That’s what I keep telling them too but they’re extremely skeptical
I wouldn’t worry about it. Most people who complain do it for the sake of doing it and refuse to take responsibility for their actions. There isn’t anything you can do about it so just ignore them and move on. Like I said before, the issues that I have with the game are usually of my own doing. Having watched several twitch streamers who are pretty good players complain about pitching when they were clearly at fault for what happened to them just solidifies my position that most of the issues in this game are user error. I also find it much less stressful when I stopped blaming “rng” for my shortcomings in the game.
absolutely - you guys are speaking like men, not this general toxic baby attitude of everyone crying over this that and the other
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@eatyum said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
Hitting doesn't need a nerf imo, we don't want to go back to mlb 19 the lineout. The quite simple fix is if I get good input on my pitch, it should go where I wanted it. I, like you, enjoy pitching more, but nerfing people who consistently get good input on swings is never the answer.
Of course that’s not the answer, the answer is the one solution SDS have strenuously avoided for fear of alienating the subsection of the player base who are terrible at the game but buy stubs in order to get better cards in the hopes of competing.
Let’s see, they’re happy to mess with pitch speeds, more than happy to mess with swing timing windows, although I’m going to credit them with not messing that up this year in a far too extreme manner as they have previously, they’re happy to mess with the success rate of good and perfect swings in order to dictate outcomes, they’re happy to try and give bad hitters more home runs on badly timed or placed swings........ But there’s a solution I advocated years ago that’s never been implemented and it makes a lot of sense.
Namely, reduce PCI size and area for contact. As you move up the difficulty settings, leave the pitch speeds consistent and timing windows, but demand greater accuracy with PCI placement by shrinking the area for contact. This will buff pitching by generating more swings and misses and stop those endless AB with a dozen foul balls on pitches way outside the zone that extend ABs undeservedly and negate the ability of the pitcher to fool the hitter into swinging at a bad pitch with bad timing. On the hitting side, it would be much tougher to hit, but you could reward perfect swings at a really high rate, due to the increased difficulty of actually getting that swing off. Therefore actually creating the feeling of rewarding good input. And yet - Never been tried as a stand-alone thing. Ever. Isn’t that just crazy? No need for laser beam pitch speeds, super narrow timing windows, every other pitcher having to have a sinker. Just make it harder to make contact. Doesn’t this sound super reasonable?
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fix checkswings and foul balls. the ability to check swing any off speed, foul off fastballs until the game finally makes you groove one is infuriating. theres no need to nerf hitting. good input deserves good results no matter how many runs a guy puts up per game
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@ComebackLogic said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@eatyum said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
Hitting doesn't need a nerf imo, we don't want to go back to mlb 19 the lineout. The quite simple fix is if I get good input on my pitch, it should go where I wanted it. I, like you, enjoy pitching more, but nerfing people who consistently get good input on swings is never the answer.
Of course that’s not the answer, the answer is the one solution SDS have strenuously avoided for fear of alienating the subsection of the player base who are terrible at the game but buy stubs in order to get better cards in the hopes of competing.
Let’s see, they’re happy to mess with pitch speeds, more than happy to mess with swing timing windows, although I’m going to credit them with not messing that up this year in a far too extreme manner as they have previously, they’re happy to mess with the success rate of good and perfect swings in order to dictate outcomes, they’re happy to try and give bad hitters more home runs on badly timed or placed swings........ But there’s a solution I advocated years ago that’s never been implemented and it makes a lot of sense.
Namely, reduce PCI size and area for contact. As you move up the difficulty settings, leave the pitch speeds consistent and timing windows, but demand greater accuracy with PCI placement by shrinking the area for contact. This will buff pitching by generating more swings and misses and stop those endless AB with a dozen foul balls on pitches way outside the zone that extend ABs undeservedly and negate the ability of the pitcher to fool the hitter into swinging at a bad pitch with bad timing. On the hitting side, it would be much tougher to hit, but you could reward perfect swings at a really high rate, due to the increased difficulty of actually getting that swing off. Therefore actually creating the feeling of rewarding good input. And yet - Never been tried as a stand-alone thing. Ever. Isn’t that just crazy? No need for laser beam pitch speeds, super narrow timing windows, every other pitcher having to have a sinker. Just make it harder to make contact. Doesn’t this sound super reasonable?
Not exactly, only because the PCI doesn't represent the barrel. It's why you can have good timing, ball completely in the top of the PCI, but pop out to the catcher. The HRs that occur with poor timing and poor PCI placement are most likely occuring after poor pitching input as well. Someone has to win when both users make bad inputs.
The only current issue I have is early timing on pitches away are not getting many rollovers. Especially offspeed pitches like cutters and sliders. They are getting roped more often than not.
The game isn't always about perfect input. Getting into good counts and swinging at good pitches is also important. The vast majority of people I play against swing at anything in the zone. Can I get perfect input on a well placed pitch, yes. Does that mean I should've swing at it necessarily, no. If the pitcher makes a good pitch that has high confidence he's always going to have an advantage over the hitter.
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
I don’t know bud, I’m not a top 50 player or even top 100 but I still maintain a 3.40 or so ERA and I make it to the 800’s regularly and occasionally the 900’s when im hitting good. What I do is study my opponents through the game. I usually give up the majority of my runs in the first few innings. Once I have seen their tendencies I make my adjustments and usually pitch pretty well. Another thing is I never give in. Regardless of the count. You will not get a fastball down the middle. So I tend to walk more people than normal.
According to many here, that’s impossible... the forces fastballs down the middle apparently
Sorry, can’t say that I have had that issue and I’ve played the game since day 1. When I hang a pitch I’m usually at fault for doing it by missing the spot I was aiming for.
I was a firm believer in this logic too, but changed my mind, and this:
MLB The Show 20 random pitching outcomes https://youtu.be/7lpWBHqyjLE
was the tipping point. I know it’s RTTS training (so really it should actually be less random) and my secondary is a curveball but it sums up the issue of pitching input needing to be way more a factor than it is.
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@ComebackLogic said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
Does anyone remember the stream where Ramone said that their data showed most people were terrible hitters? I could probably find the clip if I had time. Anyway, if that’s SDS view, it no wonder they’ve juiced offense so ridiculously in order to help all the terrible hitters enjoy the game more. The thing is, I was quite happy being a terrible hitter and half decent pitcher. I didn’t want my offense juiced, nor my pitching nerfed. I don’t care if I’m a terrible hitter in SDS opinion, if I’m a terrible hitter, then I won’t get many hits, that’s a me problem. Stop trying to force juiced offense on us in various ways like making pitches hang and giving every other card more power than Babe Ruth and just let games play out as they will.
Amen to that! Earning a win and knowing it is much more satisfying than being gifted one, especially when you really have to work for it!
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@Red_Ted_is_back said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
I don’t know bud, I’m not a top 50 player or even top 100 but I still maintain a 3.40 or so ERA and I make it to the 800’s regularly and occasionally the 900’s when im hitting good. What I do is study my opponents through the game. I usually give up the majority of my runs in the first few innings. Once I have seen their tendencies I make my adjustments and usually pitch pretty well. Another thing is I never give in. Regardless of the count. You will not get a fastball down the middle. So I tend to walk more people than normal.
According to many here, that’s impossible... the forces fastballs down the middle apparently
Sorry, can’t say that I have had that issue and I’ve played the game since day 1. When I hang a pitch I’m usually at fault for doing it by missing the spot I was aiming for.
I was a firm believer in this logic too, but changed my mind, and this:
MLB The Show 20 random pitching outcomes https://youtu.be/7lpWBHqyjLE
was the tipping point. I know it’s RTTS training (so really it should actually be less random) and my secondary is a curveball but it sums up the issue of pitching input needing to be way more a factor than it is.
You’re using metered pitching input. That by its nature is not accurate. And you’re not taking into account that pitchers attributes. My guess is that pitcher doesn’t have 100+ control so using that input is going to exacerbate the issue. Like I’ve said, I make the mistakes not the game (using the input that gives me the most control over my pitches which is pure analog).
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@ComebackLogic said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@eatyum said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
Hitting doesn't need a nerf imo, we don't want to go back to mlb 19 the lineout. The quite simple fix is if I get good input on my pitch, it should go where I wanted it. I, like you, enjoy pitching more, but nerfing people who consistently get good input on swings is never the answer.
Of course that’s not the answer, the answer is the one solution SDS have strenuously avoided for fear of alienating the subsection of the player base who are terrible at the game but buy stubs in order to get better cards in the hopes of competing.
Let’s see, they’re happy to mess with pitch speeds, more than happy to mess with swing timing windows, although I’m going to credit them with not messing that up this year in a far too extreme manner as they have previously, they’re happy to mess with the success rate of good and perfect swings in order to dictate outcomes, they’re happy to try and give bad hitters more home runs on badly timed or placed swings........ But there’s a solution I advocated years ago that’s never been implemented and it makes a lot of sense.
Namely, reduce PCI size and area for contact. As you move up the difficulty settings, leave the pitch speeds consistent and timing windows, but demand greater accuracy with PCI placement by shrinking the area for contact. This will buff pitching by generating more swings and misses and stop those endless AB with a dozen foul balls on pitches way outside the zone that extend ABs undeservedly and negate the ability of the pitcher to fool the hitter into swinging at a bad pitch with bad timing. On the hitting side, it would be much tougher to hit, but you could reward perfect swings at a really high rate, due to the increased difficulty of actually getting that swing off. Therefore actually creating the feeling of rewarding good input. And yet - Never been tried as a stand-alone thing. Ever. Isn’t that just crazy? No need for laser beam pitch speeds, super narrow timing windows, every other pitcher having to have a sinker. Just make it harder to make contact. Doesn’t this sound super reasonable?
Not exactly, only because the PCI doesn't represent the barrel. It's why you can have good timing, ball completely in the top of the PCI, but pop out to the catcher. The HRs that occur with poor timing and poor PCI placement are most likely occuring after poor pitching input as well. Someone has to win when both users make bad inputs.
The only current issue I have is early timing on pitches away are not getting many rollovers. Especially offspeed pitches like cutters and sliders. They are getting roped more often than not.
The game isn't always about perfect input. Getting into good counts and swinging at good pitches is also important. The vast majority of people I play against swing at anything in the zone. Can I get perfect input on a well placed pitch, yes. Does that mean I should've swing at it necessarily, no. If the pitcher makes a good pitch that has high confidence he's always going to have an advantage over the hitter.
Just think about that for a second. “Can I get perfect input on a well placed pitch, yes. Does that mean I should've swing at it necessarily, no.” Why would you not swing at it when there’s absolutely no penalty for choosing to swing at a pitchers pitch? As you said “early timing on pitches away are not getting many rollovers. Especially offspeed pitches like cutters and sliders. They are getting roped more often than not.” Exactly- More often than not, they’re not generating realistic contact and this is another huge, yet separate, issue as regards pitching. I can throw an absolutely perfect slider to Mike Trout with a righty and if I execute it well and have it break off the corner down and away, there should be practically no chance of it being pulled for a 400 foot home run to left field. I can live with an oppo taco home run in this instance, even a dinger to center if he muscles it out of the park, it’s tough to take as a pitcher when you did your job and made your pitch, but that’s baseball. It’s those crazily unrealistic outcomes that drive me nuts and I’ve never played baseball. To anyone with actual experience of the game, it must be even more laughable.
Pitching is already at a huge disadvantage this year due to the huge PCI and excessive foul tips and giving hitters the opportunity to pull any pitch, in any location, just by swinging early and not making good contact with the barrel (not that we have a barrel, haha!)on top of all the rest of the bad stuff (hangers on reasonably good input, strikes not called on the black etc) is overkill. That’s why I suggested the first step ought to be reducing both inner and particularly outer PCI size in order to generate more swings and misses. This will also encourage hitters to be far more selective at the plate, because they won’t be able to count on constant foul tips to bail them out on bad swings.
I’d advocate for this over reduced swing timing windows, which in my experience makes bad hitters feel helpless at the plate. When those 200mph sinkers are warping by, you really feel like you have no chance to see the ball well. With the PCI reduction I’m proposing as an alternative to narrowing swing timing windows, all you’d have to do is be more selective as a hitter and improve your plate discipline, which is totally within your own control, rather than creating a meta of swinging stupidly early and getting rewarded.
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@ComebackLogic said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@ComebackLogic said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@eatyum said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
Hitting doesn't need a nerf imo, we don't want to go back to mlb 19 the lineout. The quite simple fix is if I get good input on my pitch, it should go where I wanted it. I, like you, enjoy pitching more, but nerfing people who consistently get good input on swings is never the answer.
Of course that’s not the answer, the answer is the one solution SDS have strenuously avoided for fear of alienating the subsection of the player base who are terrible at the game but buy stubs in order to get better cards in the hopes of competing.
Let’s see, they’re happy to mess with pitch speeds, more than happy to mess with swing timing windows, although I’m going to credit them with not messing that up this year in a far too extreme manner as they have previously, they’re happy to mess with the success rate of good and perfect swings in order to dictate outcomes, they’re happy to try and give bad hitters more home runs on badly timed or placed swings........ But there’s a solution I advocated years ago that’s never been implemented and it makes a lot of sense.
Namely, reduce PCI size and area for contact. As you move up the difficulty settings, leave the pitch speeds consistent and timing windows, but demand greater accuracy with PCI placement by shrinking the area for contact. This will buff pitching by generating more swings and misses and stop those endless AB with a dozen foul balls on pitches way outside the zone that extend ABs undeservedly and negate the ability of the pitcher to fool the hitter into swinging at a bad pitch with bad timing. On the hitting side, it would be much tougher to hit, but you could reward perfect swings at a really high rate, due to the increased difficulty of actually getting that swing off. Therefore actually creating the feeling of rewarding good input. And yet - Never been tried as a stand-alone thing. Ever. Isn’t that just crazy? No need for laser beam pitch speeds, super narrow timing windows, every other pitcher having to have a sinker. Just make it harder to make contact. Doesn’t this sound super reasonable?
Not exactly, only because the PCI doesn't represent the barrel. It's why you can have good timing, ball completely in the top of the PCI, but pop out to the catcher. The HRs that occur with poor timing and poor PCI placement are most likely occuring after poor pitching input as well. Someone has to win when both users make bad inputs.
The only current issue I have is early timing on pitches away are not getting many rollovers. Especially offspeed pitches like cutters and sliders. They are getting roped more often than not.
The game isn't always about perfect input. Getting into good counts and swinging at good pitches is also important. The vast majority of people I play against swing at anything in the zone. Can I get perfect input on a well placed pitch, yes. Does that mean I should've swing at it necessarily, no. If the pitcher makes a good pitch that has high confidence he's always going to have an advantage over the hitter.
Just think about that for a second. “Can I get perfect input on a well placed pitch, yes. Does that mean I should've swing at it necessarily, no.” Why would you not swing at it when there’s absolutely no penalty for choosing to swing at a pitchers pitch? As you said “early timing on pitches away are not getting many rollovers. Especially offspeed pitches like cutters and sliders. They are getting roped more often than not.” Exactly- More often than not, they’re not generating realistic contact and this is another huge, yet separate, issue as regards pitching. I can throw an absolutely perfect slider to Mike Trout with a righty and if I execute it well and have it break off the corner down and away, there should be practically no chance of it being pulled for a 400 foot home run to left field. I can live with an oppo taco home run in this instance, even a dinger to center if he muscles it out of the park, it’s tough to take as a pitcher when you did your job and made your pitch, but that’s baseball. It’s those crazily unrealistic outcomes that drive me nuts and I’ve never played baseball. To anyone with actual experience of the game, it must be even more laughable.
Pitching is already at a huge disadvantage this year due to the huge PCI and excessive foul tips and giving hitters the opportunity to pull any pitch, in any location, just by swinging early and not making good contact with the barrel (not that we have a barrel, haha!)on top of all the rest of the bad stuff (hangers on reasonably good input, strikes not called on the black etc) is overkill. That’s why I suggested the first step ought to be reducing both inner and particularly outer PCI size in order to generate more swings and misses. This will also encourage hitters to be far more selective at the plate, because they won’t be able to count on constant foul tips to bail them out on bad swings.
I’d advocate for this over reduced swing timing windows, which in my experience makes bad hitters feel helpless at the plate. When those 200mph sinkers are warping by, you really feel like you have no chance to see the ball well. With the PCI reduction I’m proposing as an alternative to narrowing swing timing windows, all you’d have to do is be more selective as a hitter and improve your plate discipline, which is totally within your own control, rather than creating a meta of swinging stupidly early and getting rewarded.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it actually kinda like this earlier in the year? Wasn't the PCI smaller? With the increased pitch speeds and smaller PCI it was actually possible to strike people out on All-Star. Then they patched the game 400 times and left us where we're at now.
The timing windows have been nutty all year so I don't think that's any better or worse. If they made the PCI smaller and reduced the absurd number of foul-tips and actually called strikes-strikes, I'm curious to see what the overall effect would be.
The event feels like a good example of how bad the pitcher/hitter balance is this year. Absolutely gigantic PCI and an infinite number of foul-tips before your good input ends up middle-middle for a long HR.
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I think the inner PCI ought to be slightly bigger than the baseball, with a thin outer circle for foul tip type contact, given reasonably good swing timing. Now, this would make hitting incredibly difficult, especially for someone like myself, who sucks at hitting. That said, you could reward perfect contact at an exceptionally high rate, due to the difficulty of squaring the ball up. It will never happen, as it would alienate the majority of the player base instantly, but it would at least be much more representative of actual baseball and an interesting experiment to participate in, given the way we’ve become used to playing. Most players swing at almost every pitch these days.
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@ComebackLogic said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@ComebackLogic said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@eatyum said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
Hitting doesn't need a nerf imo, we don't want to go back to mlb 19 the lineout. The quite simple fix is if I get good input on my pitch, it should go where I wanted it. I, like you, enjoy pitching more, but nerfing people who consistently get good input on swings is never the answer.
Of course that’s not the answer, the answer is the one solution SDS have strenuously avoided for fear of alienating the subsection of the player base who are terrible at the game but buy stubs in order to get better cards in the hopes of competing.
Let’s see, they’re happy to mess with pitch speeds, more than happy to mess with swing timing windows, although I’m going to credit them with not messing that up this year in a far too extreme manner as they have previously, they’re happy to mess with the success rate of good and perfect swings in order to dictate outcomes, they’re happy to try and give bad hitters more home runs on badly timed or placed swings........ But there’s a solution I advocated years ago that’s never been implemented and it makes a lot of sense.
Namely, reduce PCI size and area for contact. As you move up the difficulty settings, leave the pitch speeds consistent and timing windows, but demand greater accuracy with PCI placement by shrinking the area for contact. This will buff pitching by generating more swings and misses and stop those endless AB with a dozen foul balls on pitches way outside the zone that extend ABs undeservedly and negate the ability of the pitcher to fool the hitter into swinging at a bad pitch with bad timing. On the hitting side, it would be much tougher to hit, but you could reward perfect swings at a really high rate, due to the increased difficulty of actually getting that swing off. Therefore actually creating the feeling of rewarding good input. And yet - Never been tried as a stand-alone thing. Ever. Isn’t that just crazy? No need for laser beam pitch speeds, super narrow timing windows, every other pitcher having to have a sinker. Just make it harder to make contact. Doesn’t this sound super reasonable?
Not exactly, only because the PCI doesn't represent the barrel. It's why you can have good timing, ball completely in the top of the PCI, but pop out to the catcher. The HRs that occur with poor timing and poor PCI placement are most likely occuring after poor pitching input as well. Someone has to win when both users make bad inputs.
The only current issue I have is early timing on pitches away are not getting many rollovers. Especially offspeed pitches like cutters and sliders. They are getting roped more often than not.
The game isn't always about perfect input. Getting into good counts and swinging at good pitches is also important. The vast majority of people I play against swing at anything in the zone. Can I get perfect input on a well placed pitch, yes. Does that mean I should've swing at it necessarily, no. If the pitcher makes a good pitch that has high confidence he's always going to have an advantage over the hitter.
Just think about that for a second. “Can I get perfect input on a well placed pitch, yes. Does that mean I should've swing at it necessarily, no.” Why would you not swing at it when there’s absolutely no penalty for choosing to swing at a pitchers pitch? As you said “early timing on pitches away are not getting many rollovers. Especially offspeed pitches like cutters and sliders. They are getting roped more often than not.” Exactly- More often than not, they’re not generating realistic contact and this is another huge, yet separate, issue as regards pitching. I can throw an absolutely perfect slider to Mike Trout with a righty and if I execute it well and have it break off the corner down and away, there should be practically no chance of it being pulled for a 400 foot home run to left field. I can live with an oppo taco home run in this instance, even a dinger to center if he muscles it out of the park, it’s tough to take as a pitcher when you did your job and made your pitch, but that’s baseball. It’s those crazily unrealistic outcomes that drive me nuts and I’ve never played baseball. To anyone with actual experience of the game, it must be even more laughable.
Pitching is already at a huge disadvantage this year due to the huge PCI and excessive foul tips and giving hitters the opportunity to pull any pitch, in any location, just by swinging early and not making good contact with the barrel (not that we have a barrel, haha!)on top of all the rest of the bad stuff (hangers on reasonably good input, strikes not called on the black etc) is overkill. That’s why I suggested the first step ought to be reducing both inner and particularly outer PCI size in order to generate more swings and misses. This will also encourage hitters to be far more selective at the plate, because they won’t be able to count on constant foul tips to bail them out on bad swings.
I’d advocate for this over reduced swing timing windows, which in my experience makes bad hitters feel helpless at the plate. When those 200mph sinkers are warping by, you really feel like you have no chance to see the ball well. With the PCI reduction I’m proposing as an alternative to narrowing swing timing windows, all you’d have to do is be more selective as a hitter and improve your plate discipline, which is totally within your own control, rather than creating a meta of swinging stupidly early and getting rewarded.
I don't think the swing timing windows are a problem except for Sinkers. I don't think it's purely timing window with sinkers either. The unnatural movement up in the zone especially just triggers a knee [censored] reaction I have to fight off. Essentially I don't think I'm always late due to getting blown away as much as it is me thinking is that an offspeed or a demon sinker.
The main problem right now I have is early is the meta. Exit velocities are consistently higher. Also, suspiciously enough, contact is consistently better despite less than ideal PCI placement. I'm referring to my own inputs I can review and I can't recall a time where I've been really in an away pitch with good PCI and hit a HR. It's pretty much the equivalent of Whose line is it anyway.
In regards to PCI size they aren't going to get drastically reduced on lower levels. It's going to cause to much frustration for the majority of the player base.
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Red_Ted_is_back said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
I don’t know bud, I’m not a top 50 player or even top 100 but I still maintain a 3.40 or so ERA and I make it to the 800’s regularly and occasionally the 900’s when im hitting good. What I do is study my opponents through the game. I usually give up the majority of my runs in the first few innings. Once I have seen their tendencies I make my adjustments and usually pitch pretty well. Another thing is I never give in. Regardless of the count. You will not get a fastball down the middle. So I tend to walk more people than normal.
According to many here, that’s impossible... the forces fastballs down the middle apparently
Sorry, can’t say that I have had that issue and I’ve played the game since day 1. When I hang a pitch I’m usually at fault for doing it by missing the spot I was aiming for.
I was a firm believer in this logic too, but changed my mind, and this:
MLB The Show 20 random pitching outcomes https://youtu.be/7lpWBHqyjLE
was the tipping point. I know it’s RTTS training (so really it should actually be less random) and my secondary is a curveball but it sums up the issue of pitching input needing to be way more a factor than it is.
You’re using metered pitching input. That by its nature is not accurate. And you’re not taking into account that pitchers attributes. My guess is that pitcher doesn’t have 100+ control so using that input is going to exacerbate the issue. Like I’ve said, I make the mistakes not the game (using the input that gives me the most control over my pitches which is pure analog).
i find meter to be just perfect - i never would use analog or god forbid pulse - yet some people love it and it works well @eatyum for example
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@TheHungryHole said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Red_Ted_is_back said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
I don’t know bud, I’m not a top 50 player or even top 100 but I still maintain a 3.40 or so ERA and I make it to the 800’s regularly and occasionally the 900’s when im hitting good. What I do is study my opponents through the game. I usually give up the majority of my runs in the first few innings. Once I have seen their tendencies I make my adjustments and usually pitch pretty well. Another thing is I never give in. Regardless of the count. You will not get a fastball down the middle. So I tend to walk more people than normal.
According to many here, that’s impossible... the forces fastballs down the middle apparently
Sorry, can’t say that I have had that issue and I’ve played the game since day 1. When I hang a pitch I’m usually at fault for doing it by missing the spot I was aiming for.
I was a firm believer in this logic too, but changed my mind, and this:
MLB The Show 20 random pitching outcomes https://youtu.be/7lpWBHqyjLE
was the tipping point. I know it’s RTTS training (so really it should actually be less random) and my secondary is a curveball but it sums up the issue of pitching input needing to be way more a factor than it is.
You’re using metered pitching input. That by its nature is not accurate. And you’re not taking into account that pitchers attributes. My guess is that pitcher doesn’t have 100+ control so using that input is going to exacerbate the issue. Like I’ve said, I make the mistakes not the game (using the input that gives me the most control over my pitches which is pure analog).
i find meter to be just perfect - i never would use analog or god forbid pulse - yet some people love it and it works well @eatyum for example
I don't use meter, I use pulse
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@TheHungryHole said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Red_Ted_is_back said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
I don’t know bud, I’m not a top 50 player or even top 100 but I still maintain a 3.40 or so ERA and I make it to the 800’s regularly and occasionally the 900’s when im hitting good. What I do is study my opponents through the game. I usually give up the majority of my runs in the first few innings. Once I have seen their tendencies I make my adjustments and usually pitch pretty well. Another thing is I never give in. Regardless of the count. You will not get a fastball down the middle. So I tend to walk more people than normal.
According to many here, that’s impossible... the forces fastballs down the middle apparently
Sorry, can’t say that I have had that issue and I’ve played the game since day 1. When I hang a pitch I’m usually at fault for doing it by missing the spot I was aiming for.
I was a firm believer in this logic too, but changed my mind, and this:
MLB The Show 20 random pitching outcomes https://youtu.be/7lpWBHqyjLE
was the tipping point. I know it’s RTTS training (so really it should actually be less random) and my secondary is a curveball but it sums up the issue of pitching input needing to be way more a factor than it is.
You’re using metered pitching input. That by its nature is not accurate. And you’re not taking into account that pitchers attributes. My guess is that pitcher doesn’t have 100+ control so using that input is going to exacerbate the issue. Like I’ve said, I make the mistakes not the game (using the input that gives me the most control over my pitches which is pure analog).
i find meter to be just perfect - i never would use analog or god forbid pulse - yet some people love it and it works well @eatyum for example
If you’re using metered pitching than you’re asking to hang pitches. With pure analog you have total control over the pitch. It’s far and away the superior option when it come to pitching in this game. It’s ultimately up to you what you use but if you’re trying to improve you’re pitching command than analog is definitely the way to go.
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@ComebackLogic said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@MarinerMatt01 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@MarinerMatt01 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@MarinerMatt01 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
Its no secret the more you face better competition, the higher your ERA will be. I’m slightly below 4.00 ERA and I consider that outstanding for someone who makes WS regularly. If I kept onplaying, I’m sure I’d match against goons that would destroy my pitching but I usually stop after making WS since my hitting isn’t all that great to hang with the elite. I get by on my pitching
Some goons in the 1000’s rating can hit anything inside the strike zone al over the field. I’m not one of those
That could be very well it. A lot of those guys are very good. I would think at least, that at that level, they would have at least decent ERAs though. Maybe I’m wrong, but shouldn’t there be some players with high averages, some with low ERAs and some with both instead of almost all with high averages and high ERAs?
Well that’s the thing, it’s very simple. Pitching is alot harder than hitting in this game. Some of these goons can hit any pitch in any area. If the average BA in the top50 is .350, it’s very normal to see the ERA’s of these guys being extremely high too. Anyone can dot a pitch in one area but very few can hit it consistently everytime. Pitching is much harder than hitting
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@MarinerMatt01 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
Its no secret the more you face better competition, the higher your ERA will be. I’m slightly below 4.00 ERA and I consider that outstanding for someone who makes WS regularly. If I kept onplaying, I’m sure I’d match against goons that would destroy my pitching but I usually stop after making WS since my hitting isn’t all that great to hang with the elite. I get by on my pitching
Some goons in the 1000’s rating can hit anything inside the strike zone al over the field. I’m not one of those
That could be very well it. A lot of those guys are very good. I would think at least, that at that level, they would have at least decent ERAs though. Maybe I’m wrong, but shouldn’t there be some players with high averages, some with low ERAs and some with both instead of almost all with high averages and high ERAs?
Well that’s the thing, it’s very simple. Pitching is alot harder than hitting in this game. Some of these goons can hit any pitch in any area. If the average BA in the top50 is .350, it’s very normal to see the ERA’s of these guys being extremely high too. Anyone can dot a pitch in one area but very few can hit it consistently everytime. Pitching is much harder than hitting
I would hope in that case that they would need hitting some in order to balance out the gameplay a bit more. Get it closer to realistic levels. I’m going to get a lot of heat for that opinion, but I like the simulated aspects of this game, and right now, it’s way to arcady for my liking
Sorry for the double quote. I don’t know why it’s doing that lol
I completely get what you’re saying. But it’s hard for SDS to make a game to cater to all gamers. Look at the endless posts about hitting being broken and people struggling to score on HoF while goons like @mitchhammond24 hate playing on HOF because they post double digit runs everytime.
There are alot more people that play below 700 rating than those who play above that. Those who struggle to get to HOF have a hard time scoring runs
I meant to say “nerf” hitting. [censored] autocorrect. But yeah, probably my problem. Hitting is more fun for more people. I like pitching, so the game might not be for me anymore
It should never be a one or the other choice. As you said, if one side is favoured over the other, the game isn’t balanced correctly. Good pitching should beat good hitting in baseball. Too many foul balls, too many home runs, too much contact generally on all star. HoF is slightly better, but still not perfect. I can’t speak to legend, I’ve rarely played that difficulty H2H.
You don’t wanna play legend H2H bro! Earlier this year, maybe in May, I played a game in a legend league. The game I remember I won 4-3. But I had......and get this.....27 strikeouts! NOT my pitcher, I struck out 27 times. That’s right, every out I made was a strikeout. I think he had Kluber or Nolan on the mound I can’t remember. Anyway, that was my one and only game in that league.
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@eatyum said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@TheHungryHole said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Red_Ted_is_back said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
I don’t know bud, I’m not a top 50 player or even top 100 but I still maintain a 3.40 or so ERA and I make it to the 800’s regularly and occasionally the 900’s when im hitting good. What I do is study my opponents through the game. I usually give up the majority of my runs in the first few innings. Once I have seen their tendencies I make my adjustments and usually pitch pretty well. Another thing is I never give in. Regardless of the count. You will not get a fastball down the middle. So I tend to walk more people than normal.
According to many here, that’s impossible... the forces fastballs down the middle apparently
Sorry, can’t say that I have had that issue and I’ve played the game since day 1. When I hang a pitch I’m usually at fault for doing it by missing the spot I was aiming for.
I was a firm believer in this logic too, but changed my mind, and this:
MLB The Show 20 random pitching outcomes https://youtu.be/7lpWBHqyjLE
was the tipping point. I know it’s RTTS training (so really it should actually be less random) and my secondary is a curveball but it sums up the issue of pitching input needing to be way more a factor than it is.
You’re using metered pitching input. That by its nature is not accurate. And you’re not taking into account that pitchers attributes. My guess is that pitcher doesn’t have 100+ control so using that input is going to exacerbate the issue. Like I’ve said, I make the mistakes not the game (using the input that gives me the most control over my pitches which is pure analog).
i find meter to be just perfect - i never would use analog or god forbid pulse - yet some people love it and it works well @eatyum for example
I don't use meter, I use pulse
i use meter, you use pulse
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@TheHungryHole said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Red_Ted_is_back said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@Hikes83 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in To all the players who say that people who complain about the game need to “git gud”:
I don’t know bud, I’m not a top 50 player or even top 100 but I still maintain a 3.40 or so ERA and I make it to the 800’s regularly and occasionally the 900’s when im hitting good. What I do is study my opponents through the game. I usually give up the majority of my runs in the first few innings. Once I have seen their tendencies I make my adjustments and usually pitch pretty well. Another thing is I never give in. Regardless of the count. You will not get a fastball down the middle. So I tend to walk more people than normal.
According to many here, that’s impossible... the forces fastballs down the middle apparently
Sorry, can’t say that I have had that issue and I’ve played the game since day 1. When I hang a pitch I’m usually at fault for doing it by missing the spot I was aiming for.
I was a firm believer in this logic too, but changed my mind, and this:
MLB The Show 20 random pitching outcomes https://youtu.be/7lpWBHqyjLE
was the tipping point. I know it’s RTTS training (so really it should actually be less random) and my secondary is a curveball but it sums up the issue of pitching input needing to be way more a factor than it is.
You’re using metered pitching input. That by its nature is not accurate. And you’re not taking into account that pitchers attributes. My guess is that pitcher doesn’t have 100+ control so using that input is going to exacerbate the issue. Like I’ve said, I make the mistakes not the game (using the input that gives me the most control over my pitches which is pure analog).
i find meter to be just perfect - i never would use analog or god forbid pulse - yet some people love it and it works well @eatyum for example
If you’re using metered pitching than you’re asking to hang pitches. With pure analog you have total control over the pitch. It’s far and away the superior option when it come to pitching in this game. It’s ultimately up to you what you use but if you’re trying to improve you’re pitching command than analog is definitely the way to go.
im around 65-20 in RS this year with an ERA of 2.19 last i checked - meter is just fine on its own, analog is nonsense for me with hanging pitches galore
