Tom Glavine = John Lester???
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@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@pbake12 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@pbake12 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@pbake12 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
The fact that Kluber (a career 34.6 fWAR pitcher) has a god like 99 card, and Tom Glavine (a career 66.7 fWAR pitcher) gets a 95 overall and it's a SS!! Which I thought was supposed to be pumped up...
This year's cards a total messAwards and Prime cards are pumped up as much as SS cards are, they mentined this in an early stream. A career WAR makes no difference comparing an award card with signature.
Award - 1 year
Prime - around 3 years
Signature - a whole careerOk sure. And without going off last year's signatures, since most were pumped up beyond this year, I'll assume they brought SS ratings down judging off Glavine being a 95...
Glavine was a better pitcher than Newhouser. Plain and simple.. both SS....
Newhouser is a 98...Since they are both SS cards; compare their career stats, Newhouser was better in every metric. Glavine pitched more inning and had more wins, every per 9 besides BB/9 favors Newhouser.
Newhouser pitched in dead ball era.
Glavine in the highest scoring era everThey don't take these things into effect. Plus the dead ball era ended before Newhouser was born, he pitched in the 1940's and 50's with Ted Williams and his likes who were putting up pretty monster numbers.
Dead ball era was prior to 1920
Ya, sorry, not the dead ball era but the minor dead ball period of the 60's where runs per game were back under 4 and owners were once again trying to liven the game up because it was boring... That period
Still doesn't help your argument because Hal peaked during WW2....lol
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@Jeviduty said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@pbake12 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@pbake12 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@pbake12 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
The fact that Kluber (a career 34.6 fWAR pitcher) has a god like 99 card, and Tom Glavine (a career 66.7 fWAR pitcher) gets a 95 overall and it's a SS!! Which I thought was supposed to be pumped up...
This year's cards a total messAwards and Prime cards are pumped up as much as SS cards are, they mentined this in an early stream. A career WAR makes no difference comparing an award card with signature.
Award - 1 year
Prime - around 3 years
Signature - a whole careerOk sure. And without going off last year's signatures, since most were pumped up beyond this year, I'll assume they brought SS ratings down judging off Glavine being a 95...
Glavine was a better pitcher than Newhouser. Plain and simple.. both SS....
Newhouser is a 98...Since they are both SS cards; compare their career stats, Newhouser was better in every metric. Glavine pitched more inning and had more wins, every per 9 besides BB/9 favors Newhouser.
Newhouser pitched in dead ball era.
Glavine in the highest scoring era everThey don't take these things into effect. Plus the dead ball era ended before Newhouser was born, he pitched in the 1940's and 50's with Ted Williams and his likes who were putting up pretty monster numbers.
Dead ball era was prior to 1920
Ya, sorry, not the dead ball era but the minor dead ball period of the 60's where runs per game were back under 4 and owners were once again trying to liven the game up because it was boring... That period
Still doesn't help your argument because Hal peaked during WW2....lol
Ya I now realize that. Good call lol
Glavine just accumulated because he played 5 years longer
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WAR doesn't travel time periods as well as people make it out to be. WAR is a reflection of a player's value above league average.
The game was played completely different in both Newhouser's and Glavine's eras.
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT OF THE OP!!!!!!
Who gives a [censored] about Newhouser.
We're talking about a HOF pitcher being rated lower than FS and some other career cards that shouldn't be better. -
I still want to know how much I'm going to have to shell out for him. I'm assuming he'll be around 150k to start out with, does that sound right?
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@MLBTHEJOE said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@pbake12 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
The fact that Kluber (a career 34.6 fWAR pitcher) has a god like 99 card, and Tom Glavine (a career 66.7 fWAR pitcher) gets a 95 overall and it's a SS!! Which I thought was supposed to be pumped up...
This year's cards a total messAwards and Prime cards are pumped up as much as SS cards are, they mentined this in an early stream. A career WAR makes no difference comparing an award card with signature.
Award - 1 year
Prime - around 3 years
Signature - a whole careerOk sure. And without going off last year's signatures, since most were pumped up beyond this year, I'll assume they brought SS ratings down judging off Glavine being a 95...
Glavine was a better pitcher than Newhouser. Plain and simple.. both SS....
Newhouser is a 98...I disagree. Hal Newhouser is the only Pitcher ever to win back to back MVP Awards in 1944 & 1945, & a World Series Champion, and.....wait for it.....oh!!! He’s also in the Hall of Fame!
You remember a thing called WW II when a lot of high talent baseball players were fighting a way and not playing baseball
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@wingspan1985 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
I still want to know how much I'm going to have to shell out for him. I'm assuming he'll be around 150k to start out with, does that sound right?
He'll start higher than that as a new reward. SP is more coveted so he'll come down but for the time being as BR reward I'd say 175k on the cheap side for a while.
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
WAR doesn't travel time periods as well as people make it out to be. WAR is a reflection of a player's value above league average.
The game was played completely different in both Newhouser's and Glavine's eras.
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT OF THE OP!!!!!!
Who gives a [censored] about Newhouser.
We're talking about a HOF pitcher being rated lower than FS and some other career cards that shouldn't be better.Showing the value above league average in different eras is exactly why WAR is the best way to compare different periods..
But yes!! I agree. The fact that these prospects are rated the same or higher than an absolute pitching great is terrible.
Kyle Wright is arguably the Braves 4th best prospect and is rated around the same as Glavine.. that's a crime
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
WAR doesn't travel time periods as well as people make it out to be. WAR is a reflection of a player's value above league average.
The game was played completely different in both Newhouser's and Glavine's eras.
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT OF THE OP!!!!!!
Who gives a [censored] about Newhouser.
We're talking about a HOF pitcher being rated lower than FS and some other career cards that shouldn't be better.The FS thing is a complete lost cause so no need to even bring that up anymore. And that other guy brought up a pretty good point. While in theory Glavine should be rated 98-99, his Career H/9, K/9, and BB/9 are all worse than Lesters. Giving him a 95 is actually pretty reasonable when his real life per 9s weren’t actually all that great, and thats what drives the ratings for pitchers in this game
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@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
WAR doesn't travel time periods as well as people make it out to be. WAR is a reflection of a player's value above league average.
The game was played completely different in both Newhouser's and Glavine's eras.
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT OF THE OP!!!!!!
Who gives a [censored] about Newhouser.
We're talking about a HOF pitcher being rated lower than FS and some other career cards that shouldn't be better.Showing the value above league average in different eras is exactly why WAR is the best way to compare different periods..
But yes!! I agree. The fact that these prospects are rated the same or higher than an absolute pitching great is terrible.
Kyle Wright is arguably the Braves 4th best prospect and is rated around the same as Glavine.. that's a crime
Except is doesn't account for the disparity in league average talent. Newhouser pitched his best ball during WWII years when highly talented players were gone. There were different amounts of teams, amount of games played, and number if players in the league.
I like WAR a lot, just not jumping decades with it as an understandable truth.
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@the_dragon1912 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
WAR doesn't travel time periods as well as people make it out to be. WAR is a reflection of a player's value above league average.
The game was played completely different in both Newhouser's and Glavine's eras.
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT OF THE OP!!!!!!
Who gives a [censored] about Newhouser.
We're talking about a HOF pitcher being rated lower than FS and some other career cards that shouldn't be better.The FS thing is a complete lost cause so no need to even bring that up anymore. And that other guy brought up a pretty good point. While in theory Glavine should be rated 98-99, his Career H/9, K/9, and BB/9 are all worse than Lesters. Giving him a 95 is actually pretty reasonable when his real life per 9s weren’t actually all that great, and thats what drives the ratings for pitchers in this game
Look at league wide strike out rate in Glavine's time and now Lester's. Lester's K/9 isn't higher because he's a better offer, hitters don't care about striking out as much. The other two career stats are minimally different.
Pitcher WAR is inflated for current pitchers because of the value it places on K's. Strikeouts weren't a goal for pitchers until the last 10 years really. Eating innings and minimizing contact was the game. Did you have some outliers like Nolan Ryan, yes, but it just wasn't a thing like it is now.
Robbie Ray had over 12 K/9 last year and a WAR of 2.4, look at the rest of his numbers and tell me you think that was a good season.
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@wingspan1985 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
I still want to know how much I'm going to have to shell out for him. I'm assuming he'll be around 150k to start out with, does that sound right?
He'll start higher than that as a new reward. SP is more coveted so he'll come down but for the time being as BR reward I'd say 175k on the cheap side for a while.
That makes sense. Plus with him being new this year I'm sure that won't help. I've got about 176k on hand, so hopefully I can snag him in the coming days.
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@the_dragon1912 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
WAR doesn't travel time periods as well as people make it out to be. WAR is a reflection of a player's value above league average.
The game was played completely different in both Newhouser's and Glavine's eras.
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT OF THE OP!!!!!!
Who gives a [censored] about Newhouser.
We're talking about a HOF pitcher being rated lower than FS and some other career cards that shouldn't be better.The FS thing is a complete lost cause so no need to even bring that up anymore. And that other guy brought up a pretty good point. While in theory Glavine should be rated 98-99, his Career H/9, K/9, and BB/9 are all worse than Lesters. Giving him a 95 is actually pretty reasonable when his real life per 9s weren’t actually all that great, and thats what drives the ratings for pitchers in this game
Look at league wide strike out rate in Glavine's time and now Lester's. Lester's K/9 isn't higher because he's a better offer, hitters don't care about striking out as much. The other two career stats are minimally different.
Pitcher WAR is inflated for current pitchers because of the value it places on K's. Strikeouts weren't a goal for pitchers until the last 10 years really. Eating innings and minimizing contact was the game. Did you have some outliers like Nolan Ryan, yes, but it just wasn't a thing like it is now.
Robbie Ray had over 12 K/9 last year and a WAR of 2.4, look at the rest of his numbers and tell me you think that was a good season.
In absolutely no way am I saying that Jon Lester is better than Tom Glavine. Im telling you that SDS bases the pitcher ratings on H/9, K/9, and BB/9 and Jon Lester was better in those 3 categories, which is why His SS card had a higher rating than Glavines
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@ImDFC said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
Comparing overalls year to year is silly. in 17 Thames didn't have a 99, but that same card in 20 is 99. The stats have NEVER been truly accurate, and they never will, because they have to follow different release metas and rollout plans
The ratings for SS Lester won't be calculated different than Glavine this year.
POTM Thames was prior to the 125 scale being introduced.
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@the_dragon1912 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@the_dragon1912 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
WAR doesn't travel time periods as well as people make it out to be. WAR is a reflection of a player's value above league average.
The game was played completely different in both Newhouser's and Glavine's eras.
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT OF THE OP!!!!!!
Who gives a [censored] about Newhouser.
We're talking about a HOF pitcher being rated lower than FS and some other career cards that shouldn't be better.The FS thing is a complete lost cause so no need to even bring that up anymore. And that other guy brought up a pretty good point. While in theory Glavine should be rated 98-99, his Career H/9, K/9, and BB/9 are all worse than Lesters. Giving him a 95 is actually pretty reasonable when his real life per 9s weren’t actually all that great, and thats what drives the ratings for pitchers in this game
Look at league wide strike out rate in Glavine's time and now Lester's. Lester's K/9 isn't higher because he's a better offer, hitters don't care about striking out as much. The other two career stats are minimally different.
Pitcher WAR is inflated for current pitchers because of the value it places on K's. Strikeouts weren't a goal for pitchers until the last 10 years really. Eating innings and minimizing contact was the game. Did you have some outliers like Nolan Ryan, yes, but it just wasn't a thing like it is now.
Robbie Ray had over 12 K/9 last year and a WAR of 2.4, look at the rest of his numbers and tell me you think that was a good season.
In absolutely no way am I saying that Jon Lester is better than Tom Glavine. Im telling you that SDS bases the pitcher ratings on H/9, K/9, and BB/9 and Jon Lester was better in those 3 categories, which is why His SS card had a higher rating than Glavines
Except Newhouser had a career K/9 of under 6, lower than Lester. They applied coming sense to Newhouser, I'm sure the same could be afforded to Glavine is all I'm saying
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@the_dragon1912 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@the_dragon1912 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
WAR doesn't travel time periods as well as people make it out to be. WAR is a reflection of a player's value above league average.
The game was played completely different in both Newhouser's and Glavine's eras.
BUT THATS NOT THE POINT OF THE OP!!!!!!
Who gives a [censored] about Newhouser.
We're talking about a HOF pitcher being rated lower than FS and some other career cards that shouldn't be better.The FS thing is a complete lost cause so no need to even bring that up anymore. And that other guy brought up a pretty good point. While in theory Glavine should be rated 98-99, his Career H/9, K/9, and BB/9 are all worse than Lesters. Giving him a 95 is actually pretty reasonable when his real life per 9s weren’t actually all that great, and thats what drives the ratings for pitchers in this game
Look at league wide strike out rate in Glavine's time and now Lester's. Lester's K/9 isn't higher because he's a better offer, hitters don't care about striking out as much. The other two career stats are minimally different.
Pitcher WAR is inflated for current pitchers because of the value it places on K's. Strikeouts weren't a goal for pitchers until the last 10 years really. Eating innings and minimizing contact was the game. Did you have some outliers like Nolan Ryan, yes, but it just wasn't a thing like it is now.
Robbie Ray had over 12 K/9 last year and a WAR of 2.4, look at the rest of his numbers and tell me you think that was a good season.
In absolutely no way am I saying that Jon Lester is better than Tom Glavine. Im telling you that SDS bases the pitcher ratings on H/9, K/9, and BB/9 and Jon Lester was better in those 3 categories, which is why His SS card had a higher rating than Glavines
Except Newhouser had a career K/9 of under 6, lower than Lester. They applied coming sense to Newhouser, I'm sure the same could be afforded to Glavine is all I'm saying
️I'm trying to decipher the code at the end
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@Jeviduty said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
All these complaints are being made under the assumption that Glavine doesn't get a 99 later this year. Which he very well can still have.
I think one of the three is the players end game card, that’s how they were adding some different looks to the teams this year.
All signs point to this being Glavine’s “end game” card.
Signature Series, Prime, or Award Winner is this years end game. And likely Finest for current players again.
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@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@pbake12 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@pbake12 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Tom Glavine = John Lester???:
The fact that Kluber (a career 34.6 fWAR pitcher) has a god like 99 card, and Tom Glavine (a career 66.7 fWAR pitcher) gets a 95 overall and it's a SS!! Which I thought was supposed to be pumped up...
This year's cards a total messAwards and Prime cards are pumped up as much as SS cards are, they mentined this in an early stream. A career WAR makes no difference comparing an award card with signature.
Award - 1 year
Prime - around 3 years
Signature - a whole careerOk sure. And without going off last year's signatures, since most were pumped up beyond this year, I'll assume they brought SS ratings down judging off Glavine being a 95...
Glavine was a better pitcher than Newhouser. Plain and simple.. both SS....
Newhouser is a 98...Since they are both SS cards; compare their career stats, Newhouser was better in every metric. Glavine pitched more inning and had more wins, every per 9 besides BB/9 favors Newhouser.
Newhouser pitched in dead ball era.
Glavine in the highest scoring era everEra+ my dude, newhouser was and is better
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I think SDS uses Baseball References numbers for their ratings as Glavine's career is compared to C.C. Sabathia and Warren Spahn on their page. I think Glavine has a bit more name recognition than those two so at first glance, his overall does seem low but it seems they're going to be pretty strict with Signature Series and Prime cards this year. Obviously the Future Stars cards are another story.
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