CBA progress
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Where does everyone stand on a salary cap along with a minimum payroll?
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@killerpresence4 said in CBA progress:
@vipersneak_mlbts said in CBA progress:
There is so much money involved in MLB that greed will always dominate the sport. While it is sad for minor league players the top MLB players are looking out for themselves and their own greed, and so are the MLB owners. I say we boycott the MLB and start watching and going to minor league games. The MLB and the big money earners of the MLBPA are corrupt, greedy, and care little about the sport itself.
Not sure why we blame the players here. The whole stopping point today was the difference in the CBT which the players want to raise and the owners don’t. The small market teams do not want to be forced to spend money to improve the product on the field. Players just want to know that their teams will at least attempt to compete on the field. These small market teams are basically taking the profits from their revenue streams and pocketing the profits the players ultimately want a system where there is a no limit on spending and a hard floor on spending meaning these small market teams will be forced to spend money on their team by imposing a spending minimum and stop this asinine idea of tanking. 99% players just want to know the team they play for will attempt to win and not just make money to the detriment of the on field product. Why is that so greedy?
I agree that it's definitely good for competitive balance but it also ensures that every team will have to issue some larger contracts which certainly isn't a bad things for the players' pockets. I'm definitely in agreement and the owners are the primary Villains here but the players aren't exactly Robin Hood either.
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@soonermagic78_xbl said in CBA progress:
@bob_loblaw1984 said in CBA progress:
@soonermagic78_xbl said in CBA progress:
I just was told that the players rejected the offer with no counter offer. Don’t know what all has happened but it stinks
Owners reportedly labeled it their “best and final offer.” That language does not invite a counter offer.
Greedy jerks. This is so damaging to baseball.
Yep there’s absolutely no limit to the insane contracts that can be given out in baseball. All of the contracts are guaranteed. There’s no salary cap. The qualifying offer is over $18 million. Last year teams spent something like 1.5 billion in new contracts.
I fail to see how it’s the greed of the owners. Baseball players have it made compared to NFL and NBA.
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@dewrock_PSN
Everyone needs to stop comparing A to B. This is baseball. The players deserve a certain amount and the owners are screwing them. "Small market" teams like the Pirates get plenty of money from revenue and the luxury tax other teams pay but instead of putting it into the team they pocket the money.
It doesn't matter if they are making 10$ or a million, they deserve what they deserve and if they aren't getting it I would be pissed too. -
Players want it at 33 owners are at 18 so why cant the sides agree on 25. That makes to much since
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@kovz88_psn said in CBA progress:
@dewrock_PSN
Everyone needs to stop comparing A to B. This is baseball. The players deserve a certain amount and the owners are screwing them. "Small market" teams like the Pirates get plenty of money from revenue and the luxury tax other teams pay but instead of putting it into the team they pocket the money.
It doesn't matter if they are making 10$ or a million, they deserve what they deserve and if they aren't getting it I would be pissed too.The problem is that whatever small market teams, like the Pirates, are getting from revenue sharing and the luxury tax, pales in comparison to what teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, etc can pay players. So fans with a bias against the “greedy” billionaire owners just assume they are pocketing the money. What’s the point of having a payroll of $80 million rather than $60 million, if all it’s going to do is turn a 100 loss team into a 90 loss team?
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@dewrock_PSN
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/more-sports/2010/08/25/pirates-financesIt's an old article talking about how teams manipulate salaries and everything with the revenue factor.
Also it's always funny to me that people will get mad at people making millions that actually do work and put their bodies on the line wanting a few million more but have no problem with billionaires sitting on their asses pocketing more money -
@dewrock_psn said in CBA progress:
@soonermagic78_xbl said in CBA progress:
@bob_loblaw1984 said in CBA progress:
@soonermagic78_xbl said in CBA progress:
I just was told that the players rejected the offer with no counter offer. Don’t know what all has happened but it stinks
Owners reportedly labeled it their “best and final offer.” That language does not invite a counter offer.
Greedy jerks. This is so damaging to baseball.
Yep there’s absolutely no limit to the insane contracts that can be given out in baseball. All of the contracts are guaranteed. There’s no salary cap. The qualifying offer is over $18 million. Last year teams spent something like 1.5 billion in new contracts.
I fail to see how it’s the greed of the owners. Baseball players have it made compared to NFL and NBA.
Here’s a little dose of reality, in 2019 the Kansas City Royals had profits that exceeded 251 million dollars. Do you have any clue what their payroll was. I’ll answer that, a little over 109 million. The owners of the royals pocketed 140 million in profits. With those profits the owners could’ve afforded two or three high priced free agents so what did they actually do. They decided to tank and slash payroll. Last year their payroll was under 90 million while revenue profits were well over 200 million. So tell me, who is greedy again? BTW, these profit totals only grow from here with the mid and large market teams.
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@poksey_mlbts said in CBA progress:
Where does everyone stand on a salary cap along with a minimum payroll?
You know I already addressed that in a previous post in this thread
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@killerpresence4 said in CBA progress:
Here’s a little dose of reality, in 2019 the Kansas City Royals had profits that exceeded 251 million dollars. Do you have any clue what their payroll was. I’ll answer that, a little over 109 million. The owners of the royals pocketed 140 million
Just to be "that guy", profits are not sales. Sales were 251, cost 109, profit 142 ( if these numbers are accurate).
This is the benefit you get by having a CPA on the forum. I provide this service free of charge.
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@arvcpa_psn said in CBA progress:
@killerpresence4 said in CBA progress:
Here’s a little dose of reality, in 2019 the Kansas City Royals had profits that exceeded 251 million dollars. Do you have any clue what their payroll was. I’ll answer that, a little over 109 million. The owners of the royals pocketed 140 million
Just to be "that guy", profits are not sales. Sales were 251, cost 109, profit 142 ( if these numbers are accurate).
This is the benefit you get by having a CPA on the forum. I provide this service free of charge.
Yes you are correct I meant to say revenue as in final reported revenue from all streams that the club receives a share of. Sorry for the miscommunication.
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@arvcpa_psn said in CBA progress:
@killerpresence4 said in CBA progress:
Here’s a little dose of reality, in 2019 the Kansas City Royals had profits that exceeded 251 million dollars. Do you have any clue what their payroll was. I’ll answer that, a little over 109 million. The owners of the royals pocketed 140 million
Just to be "that guy", profits are not sales. Sales were 251, cost 109, profit 142 ( if these numbers are accurate).
This is the benefit you get by having a CPA on the forum. I provide this service free of charge.
Not to be “that that guy” and I have no idea if those figures are accurate but if revenue was 251 and payroll was 109 there are many other expenses that would eat into that 142. Stadium lease, insurance, marketing, and tons of other costs. Again I have no idea if the quoted figures were accurate but my point is there is probably a ton of cost that goes into owning a baseball team.
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@dewrock_psn said in CBA progress:
@kovz88_psn said in CBA progress:
@dewrock_PSN
Everyone needs to stop comparing A to B. This is baseball. The players deserve a certain amount and the owners are screwing them. "Small market" teams like the Pirates get plenty of money from revenue and the luxury tax other teams pay but instead of putting it into the team they pocket the money.
It doesn't matter if they are making 10$ or a million, they deserve what they deserve and if they aren't getting it I would be pissed too.The problem is that whatever small market teams, like the Pirates, are getting from revenue sharing and the luxury tax, pales in comparison to what teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, etc can pay players. So fans with a bias against the “greedy” billionaire owners just assume they are pocketing the money. What’s the point of having a payroll of $80 million rather than $60 million, if all it’s going to do is turn a 100 loss team into a 90 loss team?
And actually the whole point of revenue sharing is to equal the playing field so what the small market clubs receive from the big markets gets those clubs into the same atmosphere as far as total revenue is concerned. Yet somehow these small market owners are still incapable of fielding a team capable of competing. Or, and this is the more logical scenario, those monies are not being returned to the field and simply being transferred to personal business ventures and luxury personal items.
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@dewrock_psn said in CBA progress:
@soonermagic78_xbl said in CBA progress:
@bob_loblaw1984 said in CBA progress:
@soonermagic78_xbl said in CBA progress:
I just was told that the players rejected the offer with no counter offer. Don’t know what all has happened but it stinks
Owners reportedly labeled it their “best and final offer.” That language does not invite a counter offer.
Greedy jerks. This is so damaging to baseball.
Yep there’s absolutely no limit to the insane contracts that can be given out in baseball. All of the contracts are guaranteed. There’s no salary cap. The qualifying offer is over $18 million. Last year teams spent something like 1.5 billion in new contracts.
I fail to see how it’s the greed of the owners. Baseball players have it made compared to NFL and NBA.
Both sides
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While I'm on the players side on most things, the fact that the CBT was basically the only reason a deal didn't get done is definitely on the players. Raising the CBT threshold when only 1 team hit it last year(Dodgers) and maybe 3 at most this year(Dodgers, Mets, and if the Yankees sign Correa). That is just a weird hill for the players to die on IMO. Can't say you are fighting for the little guy in the league when the Scherzer's Coles, and Betts of the league are the only reason teams hit the luxury tax.
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I have a question for those that think the players are so greedy and the owners are the victims of some collusive cabal aka the players association. Why do the marquee free agents always end up with the same ten teams in baseball? Is it because everyone wants to be a Yankee, Red Sox, Dodgers and so forth and so on. The same clubs who are considered to be the most hated franchises outside of their fan bases. I guarantee that the majority of these players did not grow up fans of these clubs. Or maybe it’s because these clubs win and they win consistently and have ownership groups that are willing to put a winning product on the field and by doing so end up making these great players extremely rich in the process. Which In turn promotes highly profitable revenue streams. I’m not a fan of any of these clubs because frankly I’m tired of everyone running to them when free agency hits because the small market teams are literally not interested in winning. Instead they take the profit sharing and filter it elsewhere. When they could’ve put it back into the club and created a winning culture. Funny how this works. Why is Boston a big market while Pittsburgh is considered a small market? Pittsburgh actually has a larger population than Boston does. It’s because of the business model that is being used. Atlanta is the same way. Relatively “small” big city but the business model is extremely effective. That is why they win. Any club can transform themself into a large market just by using an effective business model. Look at the Cardinals. They don’t have a ridiculous NY size population but that organization has operated flawlessly for over a hundred years. Outside of the Yankees they are the most celebrated franchise in the MLB. And that city by all terms of the word is the quintessential small market. Yet they are not considered a small market. It’s not by accident.
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@the_dragon1912 said in CBA progress:
While I'm on the players side on most things, the fact that the CBT was basically the only reason a deal didn't get done is definitely on the players. Raising the CBT threshold when only 1 team hit it last year(Dodgers) and maybe 3 at most this year(Dodgers, Mets, and if the Yankees sign Correa). That is just a weird hill for the players to die on IMO. Can't say you are fighting for the little guy in the league when the Scherzer's Coles, and Betts of the league are the only reason teams hit the luxury tax.
The problem with the dodgers they had some bad trades and contracts so they were if not still are paying dead money to players who are not even in the league. I know Betts, Bellinger, Kershaw, Jansen, and turner all had big contract. The good thing is the Dodgers also were over 1mil in ticket sales for many years before Covid. The tickets were affordable compared to other Stadiums because it sits over 56,000 fans. The dodgers have always had a good farm system.
In 2019 the dodgers were paying 40mil to players not on the roster
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@durhambulls71 said in CBA progress:
@arvcpa_psn said in CBA progress:
@killerpresence4 said in CBA progress:
Here’s a little dose of reality, in 2019 the Kansas City Royals had profits that exceeded 251 million dollars. Do you have any clue what their payroll was. I’ll answer that, a little over 109 million. The owners of the royals pocketed 140 million
Just to be "that guy", profits are not sales. Sales were 251, cost 109, profit 142 ( if these numbers are accurate).
This is the benefit you get by having a CPA on the forum. I provide this service free of charge.
Not to be “that that guy” and I have no idea if those figures are accurate but if revenue was 251 and payroll was 109 there are many other expenses that would eat into that 142. Stadium lease, insurance, marketing, and tons of other costs. Again I have no idea if the quoted figures were accurate but my point is there is probably a ton of cost that goes into owning a baseball team.
Please be that guy, because the post you are referring to and others that I have seen seem to think that the owner just pockets that extra money. They never bring up that the extra money also has to covers stadium costs, salaries for vendors and ushers and ticket takers, all the staff from trainers and coaches to office personnel and groundskeepers. Every player in the minor leagues that is not a part of team salary computation. Starting this year they have to provide housing for almost all minor leaguers. Minor league facilities. The list probably goes on an includes a lot of expenses that we don't know anything about.
No, the owners are not saints and they do some shady stuff but in the end they are the ones taking the risks and footing the bills, while the baseball players money is risk free and guaranteed.
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@dolenz_psn said in CBA progress:
No, the owners are not saints and they do some shady stuff but in the end they are the ones taking the risks and footing the bills, while the baseball players money is risk free and guaranteed.
There is virtually no risk for the owners though. Franchise valuations grow every year regardless of a team's success. Over 18 years the rays and marlins have each appreciated 800 million dollars, presumably without fan bases, and they could afford to lose $45m/year and break even while collecting a salary the whole time. Any of the "poorer" owners could sell their team right now and triple their net worth. Unless you're buying in now, in which case you are already extremely loaded and buying the team as a vanity/passion project.
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@dolenz_psn said in CBA progress:
@durhambulls71 said in CBA progress:
@arvcpa_psn said in CBA progress:
@killerpresence4 said in CBA progress:
Here’s a little dose of reality, in 2019 the Kansas City Royals had profits that exceeded 251 million dollars. Do you have any clue what their payroll was. I’ll answer that, a little over 109 million. The owners of the royals pocketed 140 million
Just to be "that guy", profits are not sales. Sales were 251, cost 109, profit 142 ( if these numbers are accurate).
This is the benefit you get by having a CPA on the forum. I provide this service free of charge.
Not to be “that that guy” and I have no idea if those figures are accurate but if revenue was 251 and payroll was 109 there are many other expenses that would eat into that 142. Stadium lease, insurance, marketing, and tons of other costs. Again I have no idea if the quoted figures were accurate but my point is there is probably a ton of cost that goes into owning a baseball team.
Please be that guy, because the post you are referring to and others that I have seen seem to think that the owner just pockets that extra money. They never bring up that the extra money also has to covers stadium costs, salaries for vendors and ushers and ticket takers, all the staff from trainers and coaches to office personnel and groundskeepers. Every player in the minor leagues that is not a part of team salary computation. Starting this year they have to provide housing for almost all minor leaguers. Minor league facilities. The list probably goes on an includes a lot of expenses that we don't know anything about.
No, the owners are not saints and they do some shady stuff but in the end they are the ones taking the risks and footing the bills, while the baseball players money is risk free and guaranteed.
Good point and on top of it all, it comes to down to the value of the investment. It’s unlikely that somebody buying an mlb is just writing a check. They put together an investment group, took on dept etc. They paid a ton to get the franchise. If the CBA goes too far does that degrade this investment? Would they have done better investing in something else? Ultimately it’s a business and everyone is looking for a return on their investment. It’s nice to say the owners are making so many millions but what did it cost them to get that return.
