These check swings in 20
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Yes, having a good eye, knowing how video games work and holding off on your swing is a good way to win ballgames.
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if you had a good eye there wouldn't be a need to checkswing
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@spokker_psn said in These check swings in 20:
Yes, having a good eye, knowing how video games work and holding off on your swing is a good way to win ballgames.
Except its ridiculously in favor of the hitter. You can get 10+ checkswings called balls consecutively before you ever see a strike.
And honestly if you don't see that as an issue, you're part of the issue.
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@ikasnu_psn said in These check swings in 20:
@spokker_psn said in These check swings in 20:
Yes, having a good eye, knowing how video games work and holding off on your swing is a good way to win ballgames.
You can get 10+ checkswings called balls consecutively before you ever see a strike.
Because I'm good at being light on the button.
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@spokker_psn said in These check swings in 20:
@ikasnu_psn said in These check swings in 20:
@spokker_psn said in These check swings in 20:
Yes, having a good eye, knowing how video games work and holding off on your swing is a good way to win ballgames.
You can get 10+ checkswings called balls consecutively before you ever see a strike.
Because I'm good at being light on the button.
All I hear is you're getting fooled often and exploit a horrible unbalanced system.
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They were too skewed toward being called balls and too skewed to being called strikes in the <redacted>
Wouldn't a compromise fix be like if the swing timing on a check swing is Too Late/Too Early it's 100% called a strike, Very Late/Very Early is 85% called a strike, Just Late/Just early would be 50/50 and good timing would be 85% called balls?
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@bigshowww79_psn said in These check swings in 20:
They were too skewed toward being called balls and too skewed to being called strikes in the <redacted>
Wouldn't a compromise fix be like if the swing timing on a check swing is Too Late/Too Early it's 100% called a strike, Very Late/Very Early is 85% called a strike, Just Late/Just early would be 50/50 and good timing would be 85% called balls?
What? Balanced gameplay? What a thought!
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@spokker_psn said in These check swings in 20:
Yes, having a good eye, knowing how video games work and holding off on your swing is a good way to win ballgames.
That’s not having a good eye. Having a good eye is letting a ball pass. Are you implying the check swing was fine?? That’s just laughable. The check swing is absolutely broken in 20 and I’m glad they widened the skill gap.
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@bigshowww79_psn said in These check swings in 20:
They were too skewed toward being called balls and too skewed to being called strikes in the <redacted>
Wouldn't a compromise fix be like if the swing timing on a check swing is Too Late/Too Early it's 100% called a strike, Very Late/Very Early is 85% called a strike, Just Late/Just early would be 50/50 and good timing would be 85% called balls?
I got a lot of balls called on check swings...just not the ones that weren’t and the borderline ones usually went strike and I think that’s a good thing.
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@bigshowww79_psn said in These check swings in 20:
They were too skewed toward being called balls and too skewed to being called strikes in the <redacted>
Wouldn't a compromise fix be like if the swing timing on a check swing is Too Late/Too Early it's 100% called a strike, Very Late/Very Early is 85% called a strike, Just Late/Just early would be 50/50 and good timing would be 85% called balls?
So you are advocating for more RNG. In other words, a check swing would be called a strike in some situations no matter how light you are on the button. Are you going to prevent me from check swinging on purpose with contact swing?
That's fine and all, but let's call it what it is. Most people detest RNG in Diamond Dynasty, or at least they say that.
Holding up on your swing should always be penalized less than committing to your swing on a ball in the dirt. We've all faced those 10-12 pitch ABs where a guy fouls off everything at ankle height. Those should be looked at before check swings.
At least the check swinger did something different than the foul baller.
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@spokker_psn said in These check swings in 20:
@bigshowww79_psn said in These check swings in 20:
They were too skewed toward being called balls and too skewed to being called strikes in the <redacted>
Wouldn't a compromise fix be like if the swing timing on a check swing is Too Late/Too Early it's 100% called a strike, Very Late/Very Early is 85% called a strike, Just Late/Just early would be 50/50 and good timing would be 85% called balls?
So you are advocating for more RNG. In other words, a check swing would be called a strike in some situations no matter how light you are on the button. Are you going to prevent me from check swinging on purpose with contact swing?
That's fine and all, but let's call it what it is. Most people detest RNG in Diamond Dynasty, or at least they say that.
Holding up on your swing should always be penalized less than committing to your swing on a ball in the dirt. We've all faced those 10-12 pitch ABs where a guy fouls off everything at ankle height. Those should be looked at before check swings.
At least the check swinger did something different than the foul baller.
They are both equally bad. Check swinging and foul tipping. The check swing is most likely a lot easier fix. Foul tipping would have to do with the ingegrity of the hitting.
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@spokker_psn said in These check swings in 20:
@bigshowww79_psn said in These check swings in 20:
They were too skewed toward being called balls and too skewed to being called strikes in the <redacted>
Wouldn't a compromise fix be like if the swing timing on a check swing is Too Late/Too Early it's 100% called a strike, Very Late/Very Early is 85% called a strike, Just Late/Just early would be 50/50 and good timing would be 85% called balls?
So you are advocating for more RNG. In other words, a check swing would be called a strike in some situations no matter how light you are on the button. Are you going to prevent me from check swinging on purpose with contact swing?
That's fine and all, but let's call it what it is. Most people detest RNG in Diamond Dynasty, or at least they say that.
Holding up on your swing should always be penalized less than committing to your swing on a ball in the dirt. We've all faced those 10-12 pitch ABs where a guy fouls off everything at ankle height. Those should be looked at before check swings.
At least the check swinger did something different than the foul baller.
Hate to break it to you, but mlb 20 check swings are mostly rng to. Yeah there is some user input, but its mostly based on the players discipline stat. - Signed a person who immensely benefitted from how check swings currently are.
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@spokker_psn said in These check swings in 20:
@bigshowww79_psn said in These check swings in 20:
They were too skewed toward being called balls and too skewed to being called strikes in the <redacted>
Wouldn't a compromise fix be like if the swing timing on a check swing is Too Late/Too Early it's 100% called a strike, Very Late/Very Early is 85% called a strike, Just Late/Just early would be 50/50 and good timing would be 85% called balls?
So you are advocating for more RNG. In other words, a check swing would be called a strike in some situations no matter how light you are on the button. Are you going to prevent me from check swinging on purpose with contact swing?
That's fine and all, but let's call it what it is. Most people detest RNG in Diamond Dynasty, or at least they say that.
Holding up on your swing should always be penalized less than committing to your swing on a ball in the dirt. We've all faced those 10-12 pitch ABs where a guy fouls off everything at ankle height. Those should be looked at before check swings.
At least the check swinger did something different than the foul baller.
Removing the checkswing removes the RNG! Woot woot.
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Let’s get rid of bunting too! And stealing! And pick off moves! I know stealing was super easy last year, so the obvious ONLY solution is get rid of it. Same with bunting. You just press a button on that right? I think people even won games because of that stuff so obviously that shouldn’t be allowed.
Let’s not shoot for any type of skill based game, anything that is too difficult to balance, calibrate, or even understand we either take it out of the game completely or make it full on RNG. That sound about right guys?
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Honestly, from a pitching perspective this is great! It might even finally push me from the 870s to WS. I never have a problem hitting either way so it doesn’t make or break me.
But these same guys or even me will be down by 1 in the 9th with 2 outs, 2 strike count going for our WS game. Pitchers gonna bang a slider, were all going recognize it isn’t as fat as it looks. It’s going to break just off the plate. We will make a just early or good timed check and get rung up. Game over. And I bet in that moment, you’ll be wishing the game had more balance. Guarantee it.
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@pnwtroutbum_psn said in These check swings in 20:
Honestly, from a pitching perspective this is great! It might even finally push me from the 870s to WS. I never have a problem hitting either way so it doesn’t make or break me.
But these same guys or even me will be down by 1 in the 9th with 2 outs, 2 strike count going for our WS game. Pitchers gonna bang a slider, were all going recognize it isn’t as fat as it looks. It’s going to break just off the plate. We will make a just early or good timed check and get rung up. Game over. And I bet in that moment, you’ll be wishing the game had more balance. Guarantee it.
I would absolutely not regret it in that moment. I obviously didn't recognize it fast enough. I shouldn't get bailed out because I figured it out after I pressed the button.
There is a difference between balance, and what we have now in 20. What we have in 20 is not balance at all, it's way in favor of the hitter. So acting like what we have now is ok is silly.
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@eatyum_psn said in These check swings in 20:
@pnwtroutbum_psn said in These check swings in 20:
Honestly, from a pitching perspective this is great! It might even finally push me from the 870s to WS. I never have a problem hitting either way so it doesn’t make or break me.
But these same guys or even me will be down by 1 in the 9th with 2 outs, 2 strike count going for our WS game. Pitchers gonna bang a slider, were all going recognize it isn’t as fat as it looks. It’s going to break just off the plate. We will make a just early or good timed check and get rung up. Game over. And I bet in that moment, you’ll be wishing the game had more balance. Guarantee it.
I would absolutely not regret it in that moment. I obviously didn't recognize it fast enough. I shouldn't get bailed out because I figured it out after I pressed the button.
There is a difference between balance, and what we have now in 20. What we have in 20 is not balance at all, it's way in favor of the hitter. So acting like what we have now is ok is silly.
So no checks should be allowed? I’m just trying to give a common situation and maybe it wasn’t the best example but you know what I’m trying to say, there are times a batter absolutely deserves a check swing. I just think it’s stealing from the hitter a little too much. Most the complaints are about guys that check multiple times an AB or way early on balls that bounce. And I agree that it should never be exploited like it was in 20.
In fact, I’ve stated over and over that I don’t want it like 20. But you guys conveniently ignore that. This beta just did the opposite and now the rare calls you get are still pure random. The 3 that I got called for me of about 30-40 check swings (throughout 7-8 games, so I’m not a check swing bandit) I definitely swung. So I got still got bailed and the MAYBE 15 checks I had with just early to good timing. All strikes. So to say that this beta is doing something right with those results. THAT is silly.
The reality is that I’m coming from this from a competitive standpoint and trying to find balance that’s fair. One that can’t be exploited and also doesn’t punish quality checks (yes those are real)
Please forgive my lengthiness and passion again on the subject, I just strongly believe that “get rid of all check swings” should never be the goal and is the easy and lazy solution.
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@pnwtroutbum_psn said in These check swings in 20:
Honestly, from a pitching perspective this is great! It might even finally push me from the 870s to WS. I never have a problem hitting either way so it doesn’t make or break me.
But these same guys or even me will be down by 1 in the 9th with 2 outs, 2 strike count going for our WS game. Pitchers gonna bang a slider, were all going recognize it isn’t as fat as it looks. It’s going to break just off the plate. We will make a just early or good timed check and get rung up. Game over. And I bet in that moment, you’ll be wishing the game had more balance. Guarantee it.
You are minimizing the problem to be something that wasn’t a big deal...and now it’s something in 21 that is impossible to do. I had plenty of check swings in the beta. It’s way way way more balanced like it is in 21
I just played a game where a guy successfully check swung around 150x in the game. That’s a huge gameplay issue. It’s keeping a person in the game that should be striking out they aren’t recognizing anything off speed and are just waiting on fastballs that’s fine...however there is a price to pay for doing that and people need to pay that price.
I check swung successfully right around 50 percent although that was never a huge part of my gameplay
The check swing in 20 was 100% with out a doubt a broken mechanic.
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@a_perfectgame said in These check swings in 20:
@pnwtroutbum_psn said in These check swings in 20:
Honestly, from a pitching perspective this is great! It might even finally push me from the 870s to WS. I never have a problem hitting either way so it doesn’t make or break me.
But these same guys or even me will be down by 1 in the 9th with 2 outs, 2 strike count going for our WS game. Pitchers gonna bang a slider, were all going recognize it isn’t as fat as it looks. It’s going to break just off the plate. We will make a just early or good timed check and get rung up. Game over. And I bet in that moment, you’ll be wishing the game had more balance. Guarantee it.
You are minimizing the problem to be something that wasn’t a big deal...and now it’s something in 21 that is impossible to do. I had plenty of check swings in the beta. It’s way way way more balanced like it is in 21
I just played a game where a guy successfully check swung around 150x in the game. That’s a huge gameplay issue. It’s keeping a person in the game that should be striking out they aren’t recognizing anything off speed and are just waiting on fastballs that’s fine...however there is a price to pay for doing that and people need to pay that price.
I check swung successfully right around 50 percent although that was never a huge part of my gameplay
The check swing in 20 was 100% with out a doubt a broken mechanic.
Please refer to my latest post where in no way am I minimizing a problem in 20. Where I stated I wanted that fixed. Where I stated my results with check swings. Which were wonky. All I want is balance man. And they just virtually went away with check swings besides a few random cookies.
Hitting has NEVER been my problem either. As I also said, this will probably only benefit me as is now in 21. But in good competitive spirit I feel like hitters have been robbed slightly too much. They should never be gifted, 20 was broken, but 21 is just as broken, just now in the pitchers favor. And just like in real life baseball there are situations where a hitter deserves a check swing.
I’m not even asking 50/50 lol. I’m just saying if it’s well timed and on a pitch that’s not 2 ft off the plate, then maybe be forgiving. If it’s like you’re stating, the extremes, ring them up! If they check more than once and keep getting fooled in an AB. Ring them up! If a ball bounces 3 ft in front of the plate, batter flails but checked, doesn’t matter, ring him up! I’ve already stated this.
And I’ve talked about ideas that seemed to be in the right direction of balance without being able to be exploited. Like giving a batter the benefit of the doubt if they check with just early to just late timing and the pitch is borderline. That’s a real life situation where a batter may check. And that’s what the button is for. In fact I just saw Kyle Lewis check a 2-2 slider. Nobody even appealed. He obviously held up and recognized it wasn’t a strike. Should we call the MLB and say he is taking advantage of a system? If he takes the bat off his shoulder, he swings? No. Obviously not. It’s apart of baseball and That’s what the button is there for and has the capabilities of. I’d say another start is making it not dependent of any attributes at all. It doesn’t have to be random and it can be skill based. Last year was random for the batter. This year is random for the pitcher. Literally 3 of 40 called in a 7 game stretch(again obviously not a check swing bandit, but obviously being punished because of them). I had fair timing on close pitches on about 10-15 of them. The 3 called for me, I know I swung so I was gifted and it didn’t feel right. I’m not even asking for all 15 of those other checks either. But I’m saying even if I only got those ones that had some skill involved, it’s still only a 25% clip. And I wasn’t abusing it. I’d like to think I use it sparingly based off those results.
I’m going to such great depth on this because trust me, just like you, I want a competitive game. And I’m trying to provide the most unbiased argument on this. But getting rid of check swings and just making them lucky cookies here and there doesn’t feel like it’s in good competitive spirit. It’s a lazy solution to something that will remain a problem.
And honestly, it doesn’t matter anyway, you know just as much as I do that things will be way different one week after launch anyway. The last 2 betas I participated in, felt like they had been the savior to all problems especially last year with pitching and hitting, but once launch happens, as has been for the last 3-4 years. Nothing really changes. I’m rooting for SDS to make a change with next gen, but I’ll wait a month or two before I get duped over a pre-release testing again.
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To say the check swings are a broken mechanic without acknowledging the role of the pitching meta is kind of a one-sided view of things.
Yes, check swings were a problem and not at all realistic but ridiculous breaking high sinkers and 102mph outliers for 7-8 innings is equally unrealistic.
I don’t think you can nerf one without nerfing the other.
