So we’re just doing away with attributes now?
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@Oachs83 said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
@eatyum said in So we’re just doing away with stats now?:
If it's an absolutely perfect throw, that means they got the perfect throw on the throw meter......... And just because you steal with high speed and Foxx behind the plate doesn't guarantee a stolen bases. I steal quite a bit, but it's a strategy, especially with high speed guys, pick your spots.
So you are in the camp that attributes don't matter then? Foxx's attributes at catcher are
Arm - 75
Accuracy - 65
Reaction - 62These are the best of his ability. Meaning at a perfect throw you get a 75 arm with 65 accuracy and I am not sure if reaction has anything to do with reacting to a baserunner or just reacting to a ball in the dirt so let's throw reaction out. So if I am following you a perfect meter magically turns his arm strength and accuracy to 99? With your explanation you are saying stats do not matter if you hit perfect. So if I am batting with a pitcher that has 3 power and 2 contact as long as it's perfect it should come off the bat as if blood Soto with 125/125 hit the ball. Never mind pitcher input or in this case baserunner input.
You fail to realize I also said breaking balls were thrown, no slide step, and I had an extra step lead on these attempts. That is my input as a runner combating the catchers ability. It's not my fault my opponent was doing zero to combat speed on the bag. Breaking balls are slower to the plate and due to breaking balls (unless misfired) are typically in the mid to lower part of the zone. That leaves the catcher in the crouch position before he makes the throw to second. He is not popping out of the crouch on a high FB setting up a throw. Catching and throwing out of the crouch with a card that has a C grade arm with D grade accuracy takes a bit of extra time. Not to mention its a runner with A+ speed and A+ baserunning that is also taking an extra step.
I will agree with you that sure it could happen with no extra step and a uncommon terrible jump with a 99 runner but with my scenario I do believe it's highly unlikely. As a player you are trading the awesome bat that is Foxx knowing players will run all over you. However I feel SDS is hand holding here as Foxx should not throw out Cobb at 2b with this scenario.
A perfect throw is a perfect throw, doesn't matter what "accuracy" stat he has, that should only make a perfect throw harder. If I achieve a perfect throw, no accuracy attribute should not matter in the slightest.
Your perfect/perfect pitcher example is just deflection and that is another matter entirely, sometimes the best hit ball lands in a glove, but when a perfect throw happens, it doesn't just not be a perfect throw in real life. Two completely different things, so you have no case there.
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@halfbutt said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
I guess it’s the old argument of user input vs card attributes.
Personally, as much fun as it is the collect players, I can’t help but think the gameplay is hampered by attempts to simulate expected performance.
I wish there were a mode that was completely user input based. As it is though, I kind of agree with OP. What is the point of the attributes if the game just overrides them?
But in this example, it isn't the game "overriding" it. The user got a perfect throw, the game didn't "decide" the input, the player did.
Are we saying suddenly make throwing just RNG based? Should we lose even more user input to RNG? "Oh you got a perfect throw, well this guy has 65 accuracy so you got unlucky and he threw it into center field! Yay RNG!"
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That’s not what I’m saying. As I said, I think a game based solely on user input would be satisfying.
By “overriding it” I mean, the game is disregarding Foxx’s poor throwing attributes, or applying a huge bonus to them, if you will, because of the perfect throw.
The whole problem seems to be that nobody really knows when the attributes determine the outcome and when they don’t. It all just seems arbitrary sometimes.
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@halfbutt said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
That’s not what I’m saying. As I said, I think a game based solely on user input would be satisfying.
By “overriding it” I mean, the game is disregarding Foxx’s poor throwing attributes, or applying a huge bonus to them, if you will, because of the perfect throw.
The whole problem seems to be that nobody really knows when the attributes determine the outcome and when they don’t. It all just seems arbitrary sometimes.
But why should a poor throwing accuracy attribute be taken into account on a perfect throw? It's either a perfect throw, and if it's not, that means RNG decides it's not.
So even if you arent' saying that, that is where the conversation leads.
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My point is nobody knows when the attributes apply or do not apply.
Is a perfect throw any harder to achieve with Foxx as opposed to Finest Perez?
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@halfbutt said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
My point is nobody knows when the attributes apply or do not apply.
Is a perfect throw any harder to achieve with Foxx as opposed to Finest Perez?
I wouldn't argue with you that a perfect throw should be harder to achieve with Foxx, but that is not solely what the OP is discussing here. He is discussing that because Foxx has bad throwing accuracy attribute, that the perfect throw input shouldn't matter.
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Well, I agree with you, in that case. It should matter, because it is in the game. It would be great if we knew how much it mattered.
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@halfbutt said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
Well, I agree with you, in that case. It should matter, because it is in the game. It would be great if we knew how much it mattered.
In the grand scheme of the game, we know very little about what matters, so in a larger sense, I agree with what you're saying.
But in this very specific example, we know exactly how much it matters, a perfect throw is a perfect throw. There isn't any grey area about that.
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Agreed, but is a perfect throw with Foxx’s arm equivalent to one with Perez?
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@halfbutt said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
Agreed, but is a perfect throw with Foxx’s arm equivalent to one with Perez?
No, not in terms of arm strength and notice how I haven't been touching arm strength, because that should matter, even on a perfect throw, I wouldn't argue otherwise.
But the debate is also about arm accuracy, and even if a player has a low accuracy, it's not like that means he was incapable of throwing it in the perfect spot, so a perfect throw should still go to the perfect spot, arm accuracy shouldn't play a role when a perfect throw is achieved.
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Yeah, I agree with that.
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You are also ignoring the fact half my argument is an extra step on a breaking ball and no slide step by the pitcher. A pitch in the 80’s or 70’s. Not a 95mph FB.
I will give accuracy if it’s perfect and we’re assuming it’s perfect in this situation. We don’t know how SDS calculates perfect throws and I agree the meter should be harder to nail but his arm strength is his arm strength. If this was a conversation about a runner with no extra step, slide step, FB thrown it wouldn’t be an issue.
You can’t tell me that noodle arm will throw a 99/99 runner with an extra step on a breaking pitch l and no slide step with a straight face.
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@halfbutt said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
My point is nobody knows when the attributes apply or do not apply.
Is a perfect throw any harder to achieve with Foxx as opposed to Finest Perez?
Yes, the size of the arrow and forgiveness of the meter is harder with lower attribute catchers. A similar scenario is the contact rating affecting the size of the good timing window.
Honestly though, in h2h play, I've noticed a trend of bad jumps when taking an extra step. I've had far more success preloading a steal and trying to hit L1 in anticipation of the pitcher starting his motion.
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@Oachs83 said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
You are also ignoring the fact half my argument is an extra step on a breaking ball and no slide step by the pitcher. A pitch in the 80’s or 70’s. Not a 95mph FB.
I will give accuracy if it’s perfect and we’re assuming it’s perfect in this situation. We don’t know how SDS calculates perfect throws and I agree the meter should be harder to nail but his arm strength is his arm strength. If this was a conversation about a runner with no extra step, slide step, FB thrown it wouldn’t be an issue.
You can’t tell me that noodle arm will throw a 99/99 runner with an extra step on a breaking pitch l and no slide step with a straight face.
Did you notice if your runner got a bad jump by chance? In the exact scenario you've described I've noticed a lot of poor jumps by the runner which negate the extra step. A terrible jump animation is a death sentence. I thought my Lou Brick was broken for a long time because he would wait until the pitcher was about to release the ball before running.
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
@Oachs83 said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
You are also ignoring the fact half my argument is an extra step on a breaking ball and no slide step by the pitcher. A pitch in the 80’s or 70’s. Not a 95mph FB.
I will give accuracy if it’s perfect and we’re assuming it’s perfect in this situation. We don’t know how SDS calculates perfect throws and I agree the meter should be harder to nail but his arm strength is his arm strength. If this was a conversation about a runner with no extra step, slide step, FB thrown it wouldn’t be an issue.
You can’t tell me that noodle arm will throw a 99/99 runner with an extra step on a breaking pitch l and no slide step with a straight face.
Did you notice if your runner got a bad jump by chance? In the exact scenario you've described I've noticed a lot of poor jumps by the runner which negate the extra step. A terrible jump animation is a death sentence. I thought my Lou Brick was broken for a long time because he would wait until the pitcher was about to release the ball before running.
In all honesty I can’t tell you how good the jump was. It happened three times to me twice in one game. I would hope an extra step with the runner with no slide step by the pitcher and a breaking ball being thrown would negate a bad jump but who knows?
I know I sound like a broken record but I feel it’s important to bring up that nothing was done to try to combat my runner. An extra step was allowed, no slide step was being used and a pitch you want to run on was thrown. That’s a lot of my gripe. Tools are there to throw a runner out but none were used yet the game still gave my opponent the out despite him doing nothing about it. If you are not going to be paying any attention to a base runner you should be ran all over until you smarten up and do the things to stop it.
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@Oachs83 said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
@Oachs83 said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
You are also ignoring the fact half my argument is an extra step on a breaking ball and no slide step by the pitcher. A pitch in the 80’s or 70’s. Not a 95mph FB.
I will give accuracy if it’s perfect and we’re assuming it’s perfect in this situation. We don’t know how SDS calculates perfect throws and I agree the meter should be harder to nail but his arm strength is his arm strength. If this was a conversation about a runner with no extra step, slide step, FB thrown it wouldn’t be an issue.
You can’t tell me that noodle arm will throw a 99/99 runner with an extra step on a breaking pitch l and no slide step with a straight face.
Did you notice if your runner got a bad jump by chance? In the exact scenario you've described I've noticed a lot of poor jumps by the runner which negate the extra step. A terrible jump animation is a death sentence. I thought my Lou Brick was broken for a long time because he would wait until the pitcher was about to release the ball before running.
In all honesty I can’t tell you how good the jump was. It happened three times to me twice in one game. I would hope an extra step with the runner with no slide step by the pitcher and a breaking ball being thrown would negate a bad jump but who knows?
I know I sound like a broken record but I feel it’s important to bring up that nothing was done to try to combat my runner. An extra step was allowed, no slide step was being used and a pitch you want to run on was thrown. That’s a lot of my gripe. Tools are there to throw a runner out but none were used yet the game still gave my opponent the out despite him doing nothing about it. If you are not going to be paying any attention to a base runner you should be ran all over until you smarten up and do the things to stop it.
I get what you are saying for sure. The one thing no one controls though is when the runner will break, unless you preload the steal and hold the button down. That only allows you to control of you steal before the pitcher starts his motion though.
When I was struggling with Lou, I started trying to do that where I'd hold l2 and time the release to influence a good jump. Even when I would let go a little early sometimes he'd still get a terrible jump.
What I gathered from my attempts at various methods is nothing is really helpful. I've had the most success preloading the steal without holding the button and then smashing L1 like a mad man going for a good jump. Does it really work
️ but I'm superstitious like that lol.This seems to be a correction on SDS end to circumvent rampant stealing that was a problem in previous years.
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@Oachs83 said in So we’re just doing away with attributes now?:
Trying to figure out how Foxx throws out two guys with 90 plus speed an extra lead one was a breaking ball, both times no slide step. Same thing with PS Catcher Jansen throwing out Cobb extra step, no slide step, breaking ball gets thrown out. Also it’s the absolute perfectly thrown ball right at the bag as the runners sliding.
I’m honestly asking as I never ever steal. With this three inning game I gave it a go down by one and then playing a ranked game opponent had Foxx. Guys would run low 70 speed cards on me with no extra step and succeed when I had Foxx at catcher. Was a bit puzzled when he guns down 90 plus speed with an extra step breaking ball.
You will never hear anyone from SDS say it but I think it has to do with connections. People use to steal on me all the time with 80 speed guys, no lead and a good thrower behind the plate. My 99 guys would have their thumb up their [censored] and not run until the pitcher was almost done with his delivery. Again, just one of the many things connections mess up in this game.
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I’m a big fan of Foxx. I have him prestiged and use him a lot. I very rarely throw runners out with him. It’s just not gonna happen. Conversely speaking, I also don’t attempt to steal much anymore as I would say I was getting thrown out at a 70% clip. Base running is awful this year so I’m pretty much station to station.
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