No new roster updates until July 30th.
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@bwheel1977_PSN
I don't disagree that Tatis and Acuna are coming up on that status but they aren't on his career level yet. You can say what you want but Trout has been a top player his whole career. I feel like I'm arguing with Skip Bayless or Stephen A Smith here. -
@silverbullet3519 said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@pscrabro_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@raider52morrison said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
^^^^^^^^^ My whole point is that Diamonds should be for Superstars i.e. Trout, Acuna, deGrom, Tatis etc etc. Then guys like Castellanos, Yates, Jose Ramirez are great players but not superstar levels. That is why they should create a new tier of diamonds for superstars and all the other guys can have high gold ratings or the lower blue diamond ratings.
So Trout is a superstar and the other diamonds are not? Have you watched baseball the last 3 years? Trout hasn't been top ten in a single hitting stat in a long time... I'd rather keep it how it is, so we can use the stars we want and not get stuck with the Trout top player every year. Trout isn't even the best player on his own team... If Trout is a superstar currently then most this years live diamonds deserve good cards too because they put up better numbers for consecutive years. Trout is way overated and true baseball fans want the real studs of the current MLB to have elite cards too. I know people will line up to defend Trout being the best, but before you do provide true statistical evidence that Trout is one of these 4 or 5 top superstars that deserve the only diamonds... because the real numbers can't prove that.
Without doing any digging or looking at stats at all, Trout won an MVP in 2019 and finished 5th in 2020... so I would say the "Trout is overrated" take is probably wrong here.
According to what your definition of overrated is. It is an arguable point that isn't the best player in the league. No one is arguing he isn't a great player. People are also arguing whether his live series cards actually reflect his numbers or do they inflate them for gatekeeping purposes.
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Vs lefties:
2016: .323
2017: .280
2018: .292
2019: .266
Between 2020 and 2021 he's only had about 80 at bats against lefties so you can't just zero in on those numbers -
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
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@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
I don't disagree that Tatis and Acuna are coming up on that status but they aren't on his career level yet. You can say what you want but Trout has been a top player his whole career. I feel like I'm arguing with Skip Bayless or Stephen A Smith here.No you are just having a different argument than i am. I never said he wasn't a great player. He most certainly is and has been. The point I am making is more in reference to the game. I probably wasn't making that point properly which is my fault.
His numbers don't reflect his numbers in the game. They inflate his numbers for gatekeeping purposes and acuna and tatis are more in line to be the gatekeepers now than trout in my opinion if they stat the cards properly. Tatis would lose defensively but so would trout. Both would be poor vs lefties but tatis' speed could make him a better LS card.
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@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
ok now do homers and rbi's with that. Yes trout walks alot(makes sabermetric numbers look great) and hits righties out of this world but he doesn't produce runs like the other guys other than 2019.Heck jason Giambi had a better stretch in his career than that with sabermetrics and giambi most certainly isn't better than trout. Trout doesn't steal bases like tatis and acuna. I get it, you are an analytics guy and that is cool. Trout in my opinion isn't a better player than tatis or acuna. It's at the very least an arguable point. Again look up a guy like giambi and see his stat lines. Walks improves the numbers and those guys do that for sure.
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@bwheel1977_PSN
RBIs aren't a great measure of a player like Trout. Tatis and Acuna are on much better teams and therefore have more opportunities to drive in runs. They also mean nothing to the game -
@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
2019 was probably his best statistical season and walking the 2nd most in the majors that year help with his % lines. He wasn't top ten that season in hits, doubles, triples, R.B.I.s , HR, runs, or R.B.I.... just saying
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@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
RBIs aren't a great measure of a player like Trout. Tatis and Acuna are on much better teams and therefore have more opportunities to drive in runs. They also mean nothing to the gameThat's an excuse. Nelson cruz has been on really bad teams and produces runs. Heck Acuna is a lead off hitter and still gets more. What trout does is walk which helps his sabermetric numbers. Again look at giambi's best years and he compares very well to trout in hitting and probably was better. We wouldn't consider giambi better than trout tho because of that.
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@pscrabro_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
2019 was probably his best statistical season and walking the 2nd most in the majors that year help with his % lines. He wasn't top ten that season in hits, doubles, triples, R.B.I.s , HR, runs, or R.B.I.... just saying
Injuries. Still hit 45 homers in 134 games. When Trout plays, he is by far the best player on the planet
I guess Acuna sucks too. Guy could only hit 24 homers this year. He must have no power
Also, walks don’t directly affect batting average or slugging pct lol
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There is no point in arguing with these people. They probably think Kobe was better than Jordan too. You can give them all the numbers in the world but they will cherry pick the 1 number that fits their story. Trout is a top player when he plays, period. The other guys are coming up but haven't done it for as long or as consistently yet as Trout.
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Here's the main thing, everyone sayi g Trout is the top player has laid out stats. Everyone arguing against it has given no stats to prove their point and just continues to say "it can be argued". So argue it, lay out stats that prove Acuna or Tatis are better.
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@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
Here's the main thing, everyone sayi g Trout is the top player has laid out stats. Everyone arguing against it has given no stats to prove their point and just continues to say "it can be argued". So argue it, lay out stats that prove Acuna or Tatis are better.
That's how the world we live handles debates. One side presents facts and numbers to support their claim, while the other side screeches ",I feel this way, so it must be true" and if you disagree you are uneducated or some other word they will label you in attempt to lessen your word.
I blame social media lol
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@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
ok now do homers and rbi's with that. Yes trout walks alot(makes sabermetric numbers look great) and hits righties out of this world but he doesn't produce runs like the other guys other than 2019.Heck jason Giambi had a better stretch in his career than that with sabermetrics and giambi most certainly isn't better than trout. Trout doesn't steal bases like tatis and acuna. I get it, you are an analytics guy and that is cool. Trout in my opinion isn't a better player than tatis or acuna. It's at the very least an arguable point. Again look up a guy like giambi and see his stat lines. Walks improves the numbers and those guys do that for sure.
The 3 year stretch you mentioned for Giambi, he had a combined WAR of 24.1. The worst 3 year stretch (during 2012-2019) combined WAR for Trout is 24.7.
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Trouts the best. Gotta appreciate greatness. All the people running him down will be the old people saying in a bar one day "yeah, I saw him play in his prime"
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@go4stros25_PSN
Sadly the rise of self proclaimed experts who have never actually studied the field they claim to be an expert in has lead to people questioning actual experts because the BS ones are louder and more confident -
I think the argument here is they are trying to figure out who the next Trout is going to be. Go ahead battle it out yea it might be Tatis or Maybe Gurerro Jr. could be Acuna. Point is everyone is compared to Trout because his is the best overall athlete in baseball. I actually think Ohtani is better than all of them but no one introduced him into the conversation.
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@Bozzman0109_PSN
If Ohtani stays even close to what he put together this year he will definitely be the top player in a couple years. Noone doubts these other guys are coming up but these people were trying to make it seem like he isn't that good. -
@poksey_mlbts said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@nash_524_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@kovz88_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
@bwheel1977_PSN
They go off of 3 year averages
2 years ago he was the MVP
Last year was a covid shortened season so you can't take those numbers too seriously
This year he's injured and injured players don't go downYeah 2019 was a great year but 2016 to 2019 he was an average great player. I am not saying he wasn't great but he wasn't gatekeeper great. He also averaged .255 vs lefties since 2017 which is longer than 3 years but has what 92 contact vs lefties? why? because he is the gatekeeper and his name. Acuna hits .265 to .275 vs righties but only gets a 72 to 75 contact rating. That is my whole point when it comes to the game. I could list way more examples but acuna is the one who probably has the best argument for the next gatekeeper.
Trout’s slash lines from 2016 - 2019:
2016: .315/.441/.550
2017: .306/.442/.629
2018: .312/.460/.628
2019: .291/.438/.645If that’s “average for a great player” then I guess Tatis, Soto, Acuna, etc are just good but not great players. If that’s average for a great player, than who else are you considering great?
Now I know you are just trolling for sure lol
ok now do homers and rbi's with that. Yes trout walks alot(makes sabermetric numbers look great) and hits righties out of this world but he doesn't produce runs like the other guys other than 2019.Heck jason Giambi had a better stretch in his career than that with sabermetrics and giambi most certainly isn't better than trout. Trout doesn't steal bases like tatis and acuna. I get it, you are an analytics guy and that is cool. Trout in my opinion isn't a better player than tatis or acuna. It's at the very least an arguable point. Again look up a guy like giambi and see his stat lines. Walks improves the numbers and those guys do that for sure.
The 3 year stretch you mentioned for Giambi, he had a combined WAR of 24.1. The worst 3 year stretch (during 2012-2019) combined WAR for Trout is 24.7.
Yeah the War stat is not something I care about. If that is how you decide who is better then cool but I just don't care about it. Look at every other number and Giambi was better. I can't help there were also other good players during those years causing his war to go down.
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@bozzman0109_psn said in No new roster updates until July 30th.:
I think the argument here is they are trying to figure out who the next Trout is going to be. Go ahead battle it out yea it might be Tatis or Maybe Gurerro Jr. could be Acuna. Point is everyone is compared to Trout because his is the best overall athlete in baseball. I actually think Ohtani is better than all of them but no one introduced him into the conversation.
He is not the best overall athlete. Heck he isn't even close to that. I can see you arguing best overall player but he certainly isn't the most athletic.
