Arcade Mode
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@rabid55wolverine said in Arcade Mode:
I juat watched the defense stream and they showed the 3 ways to play. I thought it was called arcade but uts casual. My apologies, that might have been where I was missing what was being talked about
Yes. I do not want crazy scores because people are good with a joystick. I want realism. Sorry for the confusion.
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@vipersneak_psn said in Arcade Mode:
@rabid55wolverine said in Arcade Mode:
Arcade is the easy pick up and play. Simulation is the setting the game is at now. Competitive is the setting for online, not arcade. Competitive is when the inputs matter the most, not arcade.
Let me spell it out for you. There is no mode called "Arcade" by SDS. I am sarcastically calling "Competitive" mode "Arcade" because the more that your team and players do not matter, the more "arcade like" the game becomes. There has to be a balance of input and the importance of each player card. Some people with great eyesight and reflexes want more arcade elements to matter. Like hitting the green mark on a swinging meter. That has to be in the game because we do not have bats to swing with (only a joystick), but the less your team matters the less strategic and the more arcade like the game becomes. If input was all that mattered we could have generic players with all of the same skill ratings. I am in the camp that wants player cards with high skill ratings to perform better than player cards with low skill ratings regardless of whether or not you hit an imaginary line on a timing meter. This argument has raged since the game has been in existence. I assumed that most players would understand that I was simply continuing the argument of input vs player ratings.
So you believe Terrence Gore is gonna be able to put up the same numbers as Mike Trout in competitive mode if the same guy is using them?
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The trick is for SDS to have maximum input from the player, while keeping the scores and stats realistic. It is not an easy balance to achieve and people are passionate about how they want the game to play.
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@gixxerryder750 said in Arcade Mode:
@vipersneak_psn said in Arcade Mode:
@rabid55wolverine said in Arcade Mode:
Arcade is the easy pick up and play. Simulation is the setting the game is at now. Competitive is the setting for online, not arcade. Competitive is when the inputs matter the most, not arcade.
Let me spell it out for you. There is no mode called "Arcade" by SDS. I am sarcastically calling "Competitive" mode "Arcade" because the more that your team and players do not matter, the more "arcade like" the game becomes. There has to be a balance of input and the importance of each player card. Some people with great eyesight and reflexes want more arcade elements to matter. Like hitting the green mark on a swinging meter. That has to be in the game because we do not have bats to swing with (only a joystick), but the less your team matters the less strategic and the more arcade like the game becomes. If input was all that mattered we could have generic players with all of the same skill ratings. I am in the camp that wants player cards with high skill ratings to perform better than player cards with low skill ratings regardless of whether or not you hit an imaginary line on a timing meter. This argument has raged since the game has been in existence. I assumed that most players would understand that I was simply continuing the argument of input vs player ratings.
So you believe Terrence Gore is gonna be able to put up the same numbers as Mike Trout in competitive mode if the same guy is using them?
That is the fear, yes. Hopefully that isn't the case.
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@vipersneak_psn said in Arcade Mode:
@rabid55wolverine said in Arcade Mode:
Arcade is the easy pick up and play. Simulation is the setting the game is at now. Competitive is the setting for online, not arcade. Competitive is when the inputs matter the most, not arcade.
Let me spell it out for you. There is no mode called "Arcade" by SDS. I am sarcastically calling "Competitive" mode "Arcade" because the more that your team and players do not matter, the more "arcade like" the game becomes. There has to be a balance of input and the importance of each player card. Some people with great eyesight and reflexes want more arcade elements to matter. Like hitting the green mark on a swinging meter. That has to be in the game because we do not have bats to swing with (only a joystick), but the less your team matters the less strategic and the more arcade like the game becomes. If input was all that mattered we could have generic players with all of the same skill ratings. I am in the camp that wants player cards with high skill ratings to perform better than player cards with low skill ratings regardless of whether or not you hit an imaginary line on a timing meter. This argument has raged since the game has been in existence. I assumed that most players would understand that I was simply continuing the argument of input vs player ratings.
@Charterbus summed it up perfectly in the thread Feature Premiere - Pitching & Hitting Thread. Basically the goal is for the attributes and variables to determine the difficulty, not the outcome.
That’s how you differentiate between the cards.
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@red_ted_is_back said in Arcade Mode:
@vipersneak_psn said in Arcade Mode:
@rabid55wolverine said in Arcade Mode:
Arcade is the easy pick up and play. Simulation is the setting the game is at now. Competitive is the setting for online, not arcade. Competitive is when the inputs matter the most, not arcade.
Let me spell it out for you. There is no mode called "Arcade" by SDS. I am sarcastically calling "Competitive" mode "Arcade" because the more that your team and players do not matter, the more "arcade like" the game becomes. There has to be a balance of input and the importance of each player card. Some people with great eyesight and reflexes want more arcade elements to matter. Like hitting the green mark on a swinging meter. That has to be in the game because we do not have bats to swing with (only a joystick), but the less your team matters the less strategic and the more arcade like the game becomes. If input was all that mattered we could have generic players with all of the same skill ratings. I am in the camp that wants player cards with high skill ratings to perform better than player cards with low skill ratings regardless of whether or not you hit an imaginary line on a timing meter. This argument has raged since the game has been in existence. I assumed that most players would understand that I was simply continuing the argument of input vs player ratings.
@Charterbus summed it up perfectly in the thread Feature Premiere - Pitching & Hitting Thread. Basically the goal is for the attributes and variables to determine the difficulty, not the outcome.
That’s how you differentiate between the cards.
So the outcomes doesnt matter? you will be ok with Trout and a 55 being equal it statistics because all that matters is input? (not that it will be that way)
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Attributes will never be what dtermines difficulty. There are difficulty levels to choose from. That might be the goal, but with different skilled players that will never be a reality.
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@vipersneak_psn said in Arcade Mode:
Attributes will never be what dtermines difficulty. There are difficulty levels to choose from. That might be the goal, but with different skilled players that will never be a reality.
But some do contribute to input difficulty at present. Eg in hitting: inner PCI size varies by power attribute. Thus making it more or less difficult to hit for power.
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Sure but when there is such a drastic difference between veteran and HOF those small differences are insignificant.
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It's so hard for people to understand that a competitive video game CANNOT recreate real life. Playing Madden or NHL, you can just spam fast WRs or skaters, hard checkers or exploits; some console players are just better/faster than others. A hitter will see a SP twice in the game, maybe 4 to 12 pitches total, and a couple of RPs after that. Playing as the entire lineup, you will see the same SP for 60-100 pitches, and even if the other guy brings in a reliever, he may follow the same patterns or pick the same spots over and over.
What you want is a strategy card game or a turn based RPG like the old Final Fantasy, but in a sports game. A Strat-O-Matic. A fully controlled team of players going 1v1 is impossible.
It would have to be a baseball version of CHEL, but batting 4 times in a game and playing the OF would be a bore to most players.
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@pennstatefencer said in Arcade Mode:
I was kind of hoping this thread would just die with the OP talking to himself, but since it's getting bounced around I might as well throw in my 2 cents. This is one of the worst takes I have ever seen on here. Having better cards will still matter. Attributes will still have an effect on PCI size, pitch velocity, pitch control, etc. There will just be a little less random BS which is a good thing and long overdue.
The only people losing out here are those that were doing better than they should have because the game was constantly giving them help. "Oh, you flailed at a pitch in the dirt on 0-2? Don't worry. I didn't see it. You get back out there and give it another try. Wow, seriously? Again with the terrible timing and PCI placement? Don't worry, you got a piece of it wink. Foul ball. Alright kid, just leave that PCI dead center because the next one is coming down the middle, whether your opponent wants it there or not. HOMERUN! You're right back in it! By the way, did you notice we're running a stub sale? I hear Trout is in that next pack."
I love The Show. I really do, but it's obvious that there are flaws to the gameplay and I'm glad that the developers are listening and trying to adjust. I have no problem with what I'm doing with the actual controller mattering just a little bit more, and if that is a major issue for you, maybe find a quarter and flip it a few times. I have a feeling you may find that fun.
This times a million.
Another thing...when you have a game that caters to people doing things like check swinging whenever they can it gives people an out to not have to improve in the game because they have a play style that is working. You can sit fastball, swing early and if it’s a fastball follow through if it’s not just hold up and repeat.
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@rabid55wolverine said in Arcade Mode:
Arcade is the easy pick up and play. Simulation is the setting the game is at now. Competitive is the setting for online, not arcade. Competitive is when the inputs matter the most, not arcade.
He’s referring to the cards not mattering as much. Input is more important than the cards this year. Pitchers won’t even matter as long they have good velocity. You will do fine this year with bronze pitchers.
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@yankblan_psn said in Arcade Mode:
It's so hard for people to understand that a competitive video game CANNOT recreate real life. Playing Madden or NHL, you can just spam fast WRs or skaters, hard checkers or exploits; some console players are just better/faster than others. A hitter will see a SP twice in the game, maybe 4 to 12 pitches total, and a couple of RPs after that. Playing as the entire lineup, you will see the same SP for 60-100 pitches, and even if the other guy brings in a reliever, he may follow the same patterns or pick the same spots over and over.
What you want is a strategy card game or a turn based RPG like the old Final Fantasy, but in a sports game. A Strat-O-Matic. A fully controlled team of players going 1v1 is impossible.
It would have to be a baseball version of CHEL, but batting 4 times in a game and playing the OF would be a bore to most players.
This simply is not true. All we want is a realistic baseball game where the players we use actually matters. I should not have the same batting averages with all my players. Same goes with the pitchers. You try to put words in our mouth several times over now. I have explained this to you and others before in detail, but yet you still interpret into something we never said. I don’t mind that you don’t agree with us, just don’t act like we are saying something else than we actually are.
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@sean_87__psn said in Arcade Mode:
@yankblan_psn said in Arcade Mode:
It's so hard for people to understand that a competitive video game CANNOT recreate real life. Playing Madden or NHL, you can just spam fast WRs or skaters, hard checkers or exploits; some console players are just better/faster than others. A hitter will see a SP twice in the game, maybe 4 to 12 pitches total, and a couple of RPs after that. Playing as the entire lineup, you will see the same SP for 60-100 pitches, and even if the other guy brings in a reliever, he may follow the same patterns or pick the same spots over and over.
What you want is a strategy card game or a turn based RPG like the old Final Fantasy, but in a sports game. A Strat-O-Matic. A fully controlled team of players going 1v1 is impossible.
It would have to be a baseball version of CHEL, but batting 4 times in a game and playing the OF would be a bore to most players.
This simply is not true. All we want is a realistic baseball game where the players we use actually matters. I should not have the same batting averages with all my players. Same goes with the pitchers. You try to put words in our mouth several times over now. I have explained this to you and others before in detail, but yet you still interpret into something we never said. I don’t mind that you don’t agree with us, just don’t act like we are saying something else than we actually are.
Except what you want exists, but offline. The ratings somewhat limit what a given player can do, but if a career .285 hitter with a .380 batting average has to be brought back down to a line closer to his true value, then it's not a competitive game anymore, since he will be guaranteed a slump to normalize his stats. You take control out of the player's hands.
I understand what you want, but you have to understand online sports games and what they do in the hands of users. The player ratings do that job, but a top 10% player will always outperform his cards, and mediocre player like me will be below. If you're bad, you're going to be bad across the board, but if you're good, baring exceptions, you're going to be good throughout you lineup. How do you tell a game "well, Judge, stop hitting HRs now because Babe has less than you".
I am absolutely not trying to be a behind's orifice, I just don't see how it's feasible without removing control from the players. As of now, nobody has been able to come up with the solution.
**And no, seeing from another one of your posts, a bronze pitcher will not do fine. That is what PAR showed; the accuracy will be determined by the user, but the margin of error will be determined by attributes and difficulty level.
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@sean_87__psn said in Arcade Mode:
@rabid55wolverine said in Arcade Mode:
Arcade is the easy pick up and play. Simulation is the setting the game is at now. Competitive is the setting for online, not arcade. Competitive is when the inputs matter the most, not arcade.
He’s referring to the cards not mattering as much. Input is more important than the cards this year. Pitchers won’t even matter as long they have good velocity. You will do fine this year with bronze pitchers.
Use bronze pitchers throughout the year in ranked and tell us how that goes for you...
You keep saying you want the players you use to matter. They will. They just won't matter more than they should, and that is a good thing.
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@yankblan_psn said in Arcade Mode:
@sean_87__psn said in Arcade Mode:
@yankblan_psn said in Arcade Mode:
It's so hard for people to understand that a competitive video game CANNOT recreate real life. Playing Madden or NHL, you can just spam fast WRs or skaters, hard checkers or exploits; some console players are just better/faster than others. A hitter will see a SP twice in the game, maybe 4 to 12 pitches total, and a couple of RPs after that. Playing as the entire lineup, you will see the same SP for 60-100 pitches, and even if the other guy brings in a reliever, he may follow the same patterns or pick the same spots over and over.
What you want is a strategy card game or a turn based RPG like the old Final Fantasy, but in a sports game. A Strat-O-Matic. A fully controlled team of players going 1v1 is impossible.
It would have to be a baseball version of CHEL, but batting 4 times in a game and playing the OF would be a bore to most players.
This simply is not true. All we want is a realistic baseball game where the players we use actually matters. I should not have the same batting averages with all my players. Same goes with the pitchers. You try to put words in our mouth several times over now. I have explained this to you and others before in detail, but yet you still interpret into something we never said. I don’t mind that you don’t agree with us, just don’t act like we are saying something else than we actually are.
Except what you want exists, but offline. The ratings somewhat limit what a given player can do, but if a career .285 hitter with a .380 batting average has to be brought back down to a line closer to his true value, then it's not a competitive game anymore, since he will be guaranteed a slump to normalize his stats. You take control out of the player's hands.
I understand what you want, but you have to understand online sports games and what they do in the hands of users. The player ratings do that job, but a top 10% player will always outperform his cards, and mediocre player like me will be below. If you're bad, you're going to be bad across the board, but if you're good, baring exceptions, you're going to be good throughout you lineup. How do you tell a game "well, Judge, stop hitting HRs now because Babe has less than you".
I am absolutely not trying to be a behind's orifice, I just don't see how it's feasible without removing control from the players. As of now, nobody has been able to come up with the solution.
**And no, seeing from another one of your posts, a bronze pitcher will not do fine. That is what PAR showed; the accuracy will be determined by the user, but the margin of error will be determined by attributes and difficulty level.
There is a way to do it and it’s quite simple with the right engine in place. Every player has data on them for each part of the zone against pitch types and speeds. I don’t think they could do this with their current engine, but it could be done. We never said anything about taking the controller out of the users hands either. All we want to see is when you have solid at bats, that the stat line should be in the neighborhood of the players real life abilities. If you have bad at bats, you are below it obviously. We don’t like the same type of games, that’s ok. Maybe this game just isn’t for me anymore. I want realistic play and that’s it. If this can’t give it to me then ok. I would appreciate in the future though if you wouldn’t any longer misrepresent what people in my camp are saying.
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@pennstatefencer said in Arcade Mode:
@sean_87__psn said in Arcade Mode:
@rabid55wolverine said in Arcade Mode:
Arcade is the easy pick up and play. Simulation is the setting the game is at now. Competitive is the setting for online, not arcade. Competitive is when the inputs matter the most, not arcade.
He’s referring to the cards not mattering as much. Input is more important than the cards this year. Pitchers won’t even matter as long they have good velocity. You will do fine this year with bronze pitchers.
Use bronze pitchers throughout the year in ranked and tell us how that goes for you...
You keep saying you want the players you use to matter. They will. They just won't matter more than they should, and that is a good thing.
I think you will put up comparable stat lines with your pitchers no matter who it is. The way the hitting is setup, it just isn’t going to matter much.
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By the way, don’t let the devs sell you on the “PAR” feature either. It’s always been in the game, they are just showing it to us now. I can’t stand how they are trying to use it as a selling point like it’s some kind of major gameplay update.
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@sean_87__psn said in Arcade Mode:
By the way, don’t let the devs sell you on the “PAR” feature either. It’s always been in the game, they are just showing it to us now. I can’t stand how they are trying to use it as a selling point like it’s some kind of major gameplay update.
@sean_87__psn said in Arcade Mode:
@yankblan_psn said in Arcade Mode:
@sean_87__psn said in Arcade Mode:
@yankblan_psn said in Arcade Mode:
It's so hard for people to understand that a competitive video game CANNOT recreate real life. Playing Madden or NHL, you can just spam fast WRs or skaters, hard checkers or exploits; some console players are just better/faster than others. A hitter will see a SP twice in the game, maybe 4 to 12 pitches total, and a couple of RPs after that. Playing as the entire lineup, you will see the same SP for 60-100 pitches, and even if the other guy brings in a reliever, he may follow the same patterns or pick the same spots over and over.
What you want is a strategy card game or a turn based RPG like the old Final Fantasy, but in a sports game. A Strat-O-Matic. A fully controlled team of players going 1v1 is impossible.
It would have to be a baseball version of CHEL, but batting 4 times in a game and playing the OF would be a bore to most players.
This simply is not true. All we want is a realistic baseball game where the players we use actually matters. I should not have the same batting averages with all my players. Same goes with the pitchers. You try to put words in our mouth several times over now. I have explained this to you and others before in detail, but yet you still interpret into something we never said. I don’t mind that you don’t agree with us, just don’t act like we are saying something else than we actually are.
Except what you want exists, but offline. The ratings somewhat limit what a given player can do, but if a career .285 hitter with a .380 batting average has to be brought back down to a line closer to his true value, then it's not a competitive game anymore, since he will be guaranteed a slump to normalize his stats. You take control out of the player's hands.
I understand what you want, but you have to understand online sports games and what they do in the hands of users. The player ratings do that job, but a top 10% player will always outperform his cards, and mediocre player like me will be below. If you're bad, you're going to be bad across the board, but if you're good, baring exceptions, you're going to be good throughout you lineup. How do you tell a game "well, Judge, stop hitting HRs now because Babe has less than you".
I am absolutely not trying to be a behind's orifice, I just don't see how it's feasible without removing control from the players. As of now, nobody has been able to come up with the solution.
**And no, seeing from another one of your posts, a bronze pitcher will not do fine. That is what PAR showed; the accuracy will be determined by the user, but the margin of error will be determined by attributes and difficulty level.
There is a way to do it and it’s quite simple with the right engine in place. Every player has data on them for each part of the zone against pitch types and speeds. I don’t think they could do this with their current engine, but it could be done. We never said anything about taking the controller out of the users hands either. All we want to see is when you have solid at bats, that the stat line should be in the neighborhood of the players real life abilities. If you have bad at bats, you are below it obviously. We don’t like the same type of games, that’s ok. Maybe this game just isn’t for me anymore. I want realistic play and that’s it. If this can’t give it to me then ok. I would appreciate in the future though if you wouldn’t any longer misrepresent what people in my camp are saying.
I hear what you are saying and i get where you are going with what your "vision" of the game you would like to be. Btw i'm open to both sides of idea so not on anyones side but will agree with most compelling idea.
But in a way they are not saying they don't like the idea (at least some) but more of an explanation or ideas how to do it besides changing engine cuz it has to be more to it than that.
You say you want the batter to play more towards his his stat lines? And attributes should reflect his stats right?
Well now this is where you need to be specific to the card type you would like to see this refer too.
Signature Cards = Combined Career Compliation
Post Season = Atrributes combined based off how they did vs that peticular time in season of that peticular year.
All Star = Attributes from that year specifically
Silver Slugger = " "
Gold Glove = " "
Live Series = Insider Edge tracks stat of every player during regular season and post season. These are a representation of the closest things to what you are asking for. As stats change throughout year so does card. (which in short very realistic)
So perhaps rather than asking for a new engine maybe different types of ranked seasons? Live series only for one group and then the other group has the other card types?
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@sean_87__psn said in Arcade Mode:
@yankblan_psn said in Arcade Mode:
@sean_87__psn said in Arcade Mode:
@yankblan_psn said in Arcade Mode:
It's so hard for people to understand that a competitive video game CANNOT recreate real life. Playing Madden or NHL, you can just spam fast WRs or skaters, hard checkers or exploits; some console players are just better/faster than others. A hitter will see a SP twice in the game, maybe 4 to 12 pitches total, and a couple of RPs after that. Playing as the entire lineup, you will see the same SP for 60-100 pitches, and even if the other guy brings in a reliever, he may follow the same patterns or pick the same spots over and over.
What you want is a strategy card game or a turn based RPG like the old Final Fantasy, but in a sports game. A Strat-O-Matic. A fully controlled team of players going 1v1 is impossible.
It would have to be a baseball version of CHEL, but batting 4 times in a game and playing the OF would be a bore to most players.
This simply is not true. All we want is a realistic baseball game where the players we use actually matters. I should not have the same batting averages with all my players. Same goes with the pitchers. You try to put words in our mouth several times over now. I have explained this to you and others before in detail, but yet you still interpret into something we never said. I don’t mind that you don’t agree with us, just don’t act like we are saying something else than we actually are.
Except what you want exists, but offline. The ratings somewhat limit what a given player can do, but if a career .285 hitter with a .380 batting average has to be brought back down to a line closer to his true value, then it's not a competitive game anymore, since he will be guaranteed a slump to normalize his stats. You take control out of the player's hands.
I understand what you want, but you have to understand online sports games and what they do in the hands of users. The player ratings do that job, but a top 10% player will always outperform his cards, and mediocre player like me will be below. If you're bad, you're going to be bad across the board, but if you're good, baring exceptions, you're going to be good throughout you lineup. How do you tell a game "well, Judge, stop hitting HRs now because Babe has less than you".
I am absolutely not trying to be a behind's orifice, I just don't see how it's feasible without removing control from the players. As of now, nobody has been able to come up with the solution.
**And no, seeing from another one of your posts, a bronze pitcher will not do fine. That is what PAR showed; the accuracy will be determined by the user, but the margin of error will be determined by attributes and difficulty level.
There is a way to do it and it’s quite simple with the right engine in place. Every player has data on them for each part of the zone against pitch types and speeds. I don’t think they could do this with their current engine, but it could be done. We never said anything about taking the controller out of the users hands either. All we want to see is when you have solid at bats, that the stat line should be in the neighborhood of the players real life abilities. If you have bad at bats, you are below it obviously. We don’t like the same type of games, that’s ok. Maybe this game just isn’t for me anymore. I want realistic play and that’s it. If this can’t give it to me then ok. I would appreciate in the future though if you wouldn’t any longer misrepresent what people in my camp are saying.
Thank you. This is where I am too. If cards matter less this year I will just play franchise. Will save me money Will also cause lower profits for SDS. In fact this is why all other baseball games have failed. The less realistic the game is the more of a generic boring game it becomes for tons of baseball fans. Also the good players get better and the mediocre players get worse and quit. It is always the better players asking for more input to matter and if SDS continues to listen to them the game will fail like all others have. Most players want realistic baseball and it certainly ly can be done.
