The Cleveland Baseball Team....
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@bostondirtdog21 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
Just out of curiosity, I wonder why historically sports teams looked at the Native Americans, who we basically stole the land from, and said, hey, why don’t we name our sports teams after them? While we’re at it, let’s use some disparaging names (Washington) and invent some fake traditions like a tomahawk chant?
Look, I’m an old guy who loved watching the Redskins and thought the tomahawk chant was the coolest thing to watch in the 90’s in Atlanta, so I’m a hypocrite. That doesn’t mean I can’t look now and go, wow, that is sort of wrong when you think about it. I hate that they are changing things like the Indians name, but I also understand it.
Just my thoughts that no one asked for.
No one asked for it, but everyone is better because of it.
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I just read they're keeping 'Indians' for the 2021 season.
That kind of defeats the purpose, no? -
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointUmmm, this is racist, dude. I'd like to point out...
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Those of us who don't like the idea of a name change because it doesn't make sense after they've been called the Cleveland Indians for so much of their franchise history.
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There's a whole lot of renaming going on across the country of schools, sports teams, product brands, etc. Whether these names should be changed or not doesn't matter—some people are just tired of it.
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Not all white people are racist. To assume that a white person is racist based on the fact that they have white skin is racist.
You kind of just proved the point, those team names are not viable because they marginalize a group. Just the same way Indians and Redskins should have never been the team name to begin with. Arguing something that is wrong shouldnt change because its been that way for a long time or because people are sick lf things changing is dangerous rhetoric and is usually said by the privileged.
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@TheGoaler said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
I just read they're keeping 'Indians' for the 2021 season.
That kind of defeats the purpose, no?Dolan is an idiot. We'll see as the weeks go on.
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Im a die hard Cleveland Indians fan! I think Cleveland Rock !! Or Cleveland fire! Unless someone else has something better
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I will say that the Bill Veek Chief Wahoo was alot less racist then the Chief Wahoo that they took off kenny lofton's helmet. I think it should be the Cleveland Naps or Spiders as that is what it was before the indians or a team that played in Cleavland. I will say I don't think the Braves, Chiefs or blackhawks should be changed. One the blackhawks are a tribe in that area. Chiefs and Braves are not a racist sounding name and has not negative meaning at tjust the words alone. Rob Manfred needs to get off his high horse and be fired cause he has ruined baseball. Joe Torre should be the commissioner.
Rob Manfred said he wants the braves to stop fans from doing the tomahawk chop. Yes it could be racist with the chant but you are not going to get 30,000 fans to stop doing that unless you kick them all out of the game and ban them for life then who is going to come to the games.
This Cancel Culture is a bunch of [censored]. I will agree some thing need to change but just because one person finds it wrongs doesnt make it wrong. These kids turning 18 now need to stop being whimps, pull them pants up, and grow some thick skin because they people before you had it a hell of a lot worse.
What world are we living in where Dodgeball cant be played in schools because it is a form of bullying. Stand up grow a pair and be a man or a woman or both if you so choose.
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@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointUmmm, this is racist, dude. I'd like to point out...
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Those of us who don't like the idea of a name change because it doesn't make sense after they've been called the Cleveland Indians for so much of their franchise history.
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There's a whole lot of renaming going on across the country of schools, sports teams, product brands, etc. Whether these names should be changed or not doesn't matter—some people are just tired of it.
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Not all white people are racist. To assume that a white person is racist based on the fact that they have white skin is racist.
You kind of just proved the point, those team names are not viable because they marginalize a group. Just the same way Indians and Redskins should have never been the team name to begin with. Arguing something that is wrong shouldnt change because its been that way for a long time or because people are sick lf things changing is dangerous rhetoric and is usually said by the privileged.
The "Indians" name comes from a different time, and people are more conscious about this kind of thing than they were when the franchise was originally named.
How about the new team name uses a symbol/animal/something that the Native Americans revere or respect in their culture? I seem to recall that different tribes held certain animals as sacred.
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointUmmm, this is racist, dude. I'd like to point out...
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Those of us who don't like the idea of a name change because it doesn't make sense after they've been called the Cleveland Indians for so much of their franchise history.
-
There's a whole lot of renaming going on across the country of schools, sports teams, product brands, etc. Whether these names should be changed or not doesn't matter—some people are just tired of it.
-
Not all white people are racist. To assume that a white person is racist based on the fact that they have white skin is racist.
You kind of just proved the point, those team names are not viable because they marginalize a group. Just the same way Indians and Redskins should have never been the team name to begin with. Arguing something that is wrong shouldnt change because its been that way for a long time or because people are sick lf things changing is dangerous rhetoric and is usually said by the privileged.
The "Indians" name comes from a different time, and people are more conscious about this kind of thing than they were when the franchise was originally named.
How about the new team name uses a symbol/animal/something that the Native Americans revere or respect in their culture? I seem to recall that different tribes held certain animals as sacred.
Thats not for me to decide. Thats up to the team to talk to the correct groups and get the right input on whether it should have anything to do with Native American culture or not.
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointUmmm, this is racist, dude. I'd like to point out...
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Those of us who don't like the idea of a name change because it doesn't make sense after they've been called the Cleveland Indians for so much of their franchise history.
-
There's a whole lot of renaming going on across the country of schools, sports teams, product brands, etc. Whether these names should be changed or not doesn't matter—some people are just tired of it.
-
Not all white people are racist. To assume that a white person is racist based on the fact that they have white skin is racist.
You kind of just proved the point, those team names are not viable because they marginalize a group. Just the same way Indians and Redskins should have never been the team name to begin with. Arguing something that is wrong shouldnt change because its been that way for a long time or because people are sick lf things changing is dangerous rhetoric and is usually said by the privileged.
The "Indians" name comes from a different time, and people are more conscious about this kind of thing than they were when the franchise was originally named.
How about the new team name uses a symbol/animal/something that the Native Americans revere or respect in their culture? I seem to recall that different tribes held certain animals as sacred.
Nah, if you're going to do this just do it. Rip the Band-Aid and get rid of the theme it's obviously not welcome and it is frustrating beyond belief as a fan how distracting of a headline this can be. All we did with Chief Wahoo was choke dynasties & world serieses anyways. Good riddance.
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Kovz88 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointUmmm, this is racist, dude. I'd like to point out...
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Those of us who don't like the idea of a name change because it doesn't make sense after they've been called the Cleveland Indians for so much of their franchise history.
-
There's a whole lot of renaming going on across the country of schools, sports teams, product brands, etc. Whether these names should be changed or not doesn't matter—some people are just tired of it.
-
Not all white people are racist. To assume that a white person is racist based on the fact that they have white skin is racist.
You kind of just proved the point, those team names are not viable because they marginalize a group. Just the same way Indians and Redskins should have never been the team name to begin with. Arguing something that is wrong shouldnt change because its been that way for a long time or because people are sick lf things changing is dangerous rhetoric and is usually said by the privileged.
The "Indians" name comes from a different time, and people are more conscious about this kind of thing than they were when the franchise was originally named.
How about the new team name uses a symbol/animal/something that the Native Americans revere or respect in their culture? I seem to recall that different tribes held certain animals as sacred.
I think that will come down to the talks with the different organizations and groups among the Native Americans. I would not expect anything to do with Native Americans though.
I agree with your earlier posts too. It seems to me that this change is coming due to communication though, and not just trying to bring down the Cleveland team because they used "Indians" as their name/logo.
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@TheGoaler said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
I just read they're keeping 'Indians' for the 2021 season.
That kind of defeats the purpose, no?I think this shows it is more about money than the principle behind it. I imagine it would cost more to change a logo for one season then do it again the following season. Also, let's be honest here. I think most Tribe fans are much more likely to buy Indians gear this upcoming season than Cleveland Baseball Team gear. Again, it seems mostly about money and optics which is pretty sad.
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@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
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@Jeviduty said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
Yep, knew this thread would get out of hand.
Just curious what you find so out of hand with the thread? Overall I think it has been very respectful and interesting discourse.
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@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@Jeviduty said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
Yep, knew this thread would get out of hand.
Just curious what you find so out of hand with the thread? Overall I think it has been very respectful and interesting discourse.
Refer to the post you just quoted above. That shows what he was talking about.
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@bostondirtdog21 said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
Just out of curiosity, I wonder why historically sports teams looked at the Native Americans, who we basically stole the land from, and said, hey, why don’t we name our sports teams after them? While we’re at it, let’s use some disparaging names (Washington) and invent some fake traditions like a tomahawk chant?
Look, I’m an old guy who loved watching the Redskins and thought the tomahawk chant was the coolest thing to watch in the 90’s in Atlanta, so I’m a hypocrite. That doesn’t mean I can’t look now and go, wow, that is sort of wrong when you think about it. I hate that they are changing things like the Indians name, but I also understand it.
Just my thoughts that no one asked for.
I think all of us can't truly understand times that we never lived in. We can learn ALOT through studying history but that's not the same as experiencing it. One guess is that some people felt that Native Americans were fierce warriors in war with some very admirable traits. I'm sure others also had some negative motives. When I think of Patriots, Minutemen, Braves, Yankees, Rangers, Mariners, Warriors, Texans, Cowboys, Vikings, etc. Are all groups/types of people that at least have some if not many positive characteristics.
I wonder how many folks realize that baseballs most successful and popular team has a nickname that has derogatory origins. Yankees was a derogatory term the Brits used to mock the amateur soldiers of the American colonies. Something else I learned today from Nat. Geo. is that some historians believe it has earlier Cherokee origins. The Cherokee have a word "eankke" which means coward. Google "Yankee word origin" and the Nat Geo link is the first one that pops up. Always neat to learn new things.
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Some have made the names and mascots mean something. The Illini, Utes, Seminoles, Aztecs, Chippewas, Blackhawks, have all done a good job with listening to their groups and making the name/mascot something to respect. I dont necessarily think "Indians" is a respectful term, and the previous mascot certainly wasnt.
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@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@TheGoaler said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
I just read they're keeping 'Indians' for the 2021 season.
That kind of defeats the purpose, no?I think this shows it is more about money than the principle behind it. I imagine it would cost more to change a logo for one season then do it again the following season. Also, let's be honest here. I think most Tribe fans are much more likely to buy Indians gear this upcoming season than Cleveland Baseball Team gear. Again, it seems mostly about money and optics which is pretty sad.
So it's a publicity stunt then? Like what Ihop did for their burger promos (IHOB)?
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@TheGoaler said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
I just read they're keeping 'Indians' for the 2021 season.
That kind of defeats the purpose, no?I think this shows it is more about money than the principle behind it. I imagine it would cost more to change a logo for one season then do it again the following season. Also, let's be honest here. I think most Tribe fans are much more likely to buy Indians gear this upcoming season than Cleveland Baseball Team gear. Again, it seems mostly about money and optics which is pretty sad.
So it's a publicity stunt then? Like what Ihop did for their burger promos (IHOB)?
I wouldn't say that. They feel the winds changing and it is better to get in front of it than be hit the way the football team was. They are probably trying to sell through the rest of the Indians type gear, maybe? It would be a lot of money to try and produce all of the new Team Gear before the 2021 season, especially with the way Covid has hit the world. Containers from overseas are so backlogged, it's insane. Anything businesses expected to land around now, won't get stateside for another month or two, unless they pay out the b u t in fees.
So money is a bit of a factor but I think the rest is good faith for their community.
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@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@CalisGW said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
So many white people crying about the name change. Just call them the Cleveland Crackers ( or anything offensive referring to white people ) and let’s move on.
Cleveland Whities
Cleveland Gringos
Cleveland White Boys
Cleveland Proud Boys
Cleveland Ku K.... you get the pointAs a white person am I supposed to be offended by all of these? The first 3 aren't remotely offensive to me. I claim ignorance on the Proud Boys and I want zero association with the 5th, hopefully that was assumed.
Two things in this thread that appears to flew over your head .
First, it’s a slippery slope when you start using names to describe a complete ethnicity. Where does it stop?
Second, native Americans are not Indians ( which has been stated in this thread by others ). So to use a symbol of a Native American and then call your team Indians is hugely ignorant. Anyone who believes it’s ok to keep the name is wholly uneducated and tbh, an embarrassment to their ethnicity.
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@The_DoctorsWife said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@NCStateHokie said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
@TheGoaler said in The Cleveland Baseball Team....:
I just read they're keeping 'Indians' for the 2021 season.
That kind of defeats the purpose, no?I think this shows it is more about money than the principle behind it. I imagine it would cost more to change a logo for one season then do it again the following season. Also, let's be honest here. I think most Tribe fans are much more likely to buy Indians gear this upcoming season than Cleveland Baseball Team gear. Again, it seems mostly about money and optics which is pretty sad.
So it's a publicity stunt then? Like what Ihop did for their burger promos (IHOB)?
Possibly but money is the #1 driver here whether that is the merchandise situation I mentioned earlier losing sponsors or ticket sales because of continuing to use the nickname Indians. There are likely several reasons for the change but money is king. The Redskins is example numero uno.
