The high sinker.
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@A_PerfectGame said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I love competition and head to head. We just have different views on it. For me, I want the players I’m controlling to act like their real life counterparts. If I understand you correctly, no matter who you have on your team, you want to be completely responsible for any outcome. One is realistic gameplay, the other is arcade style gameplay. Both are fine, but cannot exist in the same space.
Not necessarily. I think it should be ONLINE about a 85/15 split. 85% user skill and 15% attributes. Or even 90/10
That would not be an accurate representation of the sport of baseball and the players that play. I want realism, you want arcade style.
What you want is. To compete at a higher level then your skill allows.
I want to be as good as guys like Mitch and skepple and pitchingrebel too. So I go into pitching practice, and hitting practice, and
Request friendlies and league invites from these top tier players and get absolutely SMACKED. And then when you do that a lot...you start facing players you used to be similar to and you SMACK them...Then hopefully eventually I’ll able to be at that level. With practice and focus.
But you know what I don’t want?? A handout. Give me my reward for my input. But don’t give me a reward to make me feel equal.
I want a realistic game, that’s what I want. I don’t want to hit.400 with a player that only hit .250 for a career average. I don’t want a pitcher that is barely in the majors to have a sub 1.00 era. I want realistic gameplay, I want real baseball. You want the users ability to time a meter and put a circle on the ball to matter more. The latter has nothing to do with baseball. You like arcade games, that’s fine, I don’t have a problem with you. I like realistic games, we have different tastes.
But you also don’t want to hit 180 with a player that usually hits 300??? This is where the issue is. If you aren’t making inputs then you aren’t getting hits with those players how would you change this?
It’s about the decisions that the user makes. Should I swing at this pitch or wait for a better one. Does the hitter I’m controlling hit inside pitches well or not? Does he prefer pitches lower? This is where user “skill” comes into play. Does the user know the game of baseball or not.
This is confusing because:
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You said you shouldn't be able to hit .400 with a player that never touches .300 in reality.
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Then you said user skill should matter with decision making, like when to swing or not.
So if I'm a horrible baseball decision maker and I'm using Tony Gwynn, wouldn't it then be possible for sucky old me to hit .180 because of my poor user skill? How would that then be an accurate representation of reality considering Gwynn never hit below .289 in a season?
It’s your baseball knowledge or lack there of in this example that made you perform so terribly with that player. What I am saying is, if you make the right decisions with player “x” and play to their abilities, then you should have similar results with player “x” as he would in real life. Obviously if you lack baseball knowledge in this situation for example, you made poor decisions and performed poorly with one of the best hitters in baseball history. If you made good decisions with him, you should put up numbers similar to his real life counterpart.
Ok, but what if you make better decisions than he did in real life? Should you not have better results? Why would that not be possible?
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
It’s your baseball knowledge or lack there of in this example that made you perform so terribly with that player. What I am saying is, if you make the right decisions with player “x” and play to their abilities, then you should have similar results with player “x” as he would in real life. Obviously if you lack baseball knowledge in this situation for example, you made poor decisions and performed poorly with one of the best hitters in baseball history. If you made good decisions with him, you should put up numbers similar to his real life counterpart.
I can't even believe what I'm reading right now lol. You're whole premise disregards the fact you're playing another user making decisions.
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I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
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@MrGamebred said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
It’s your baseball knowledge or lack there of in this example that made you perform so terribly with that player. What I am saying is, if you make the right decisions with player “x” and play to their abilities, then you should have similar results with player “x” as he would in real life. Obviously if you lack baseball knowledge in this situation for example, you made poor decisions and performed poorly with one of the best hitters in baseball history. If you made good decisions with him, you should put up numbers similar to his real life counterpart.
I can't even believe what I'm reading right now lol. You're whole premise disregards the fact you're playing another user making decisions.
Exactly my point. The other user is making decisions with his players as well. That’s what separates the users.
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
So Babe Ruth, should always be around .342 and 46 hrs because that was him in reality even though the real game completely changed since 1935. Makes sense.
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
This doesn't even make sense either. Better plate discipline = better obp and better pitches to hit = better success rate offensively?
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Trying to follow the logic in this thread is giving me brainfreeze.
You should be able to dot strike three with a common pitcher, as long as your input is perfect.
You should be able to hit a HR with a common player with high power, as long as you square it up and have perfect input.
... Period.
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@LankyRyan said in The high sinker.:
Trying to follow the logic in this thread is giving me brainfreeze.
You should be able to dot strike three with a common pitcher, as long as your input is perfect.
You should be able to hit a HR with a common player with high power, as long as you square it up and have perfect input.
... Period.
The only caveat I would add is that in both scenarios it should be extremely difficult to achieve perfect input because of those player's ratings.
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@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
So Babe Ruth, should always be around .342 and 46 hrs because that was him in reality even though the real game completely changed since 1935. Makes sense.
This I agree with you becomes difficult because babe Ruth never faced today’s competition and vice versa. Some argue he wouldn’t even be a major league player into today’s game. If your going to have today’s players playing against players of the past, then you can do it one of two ways. Reference the numbers they put up back in their careers, or come up with a formula that you thought would accurately represent him into today’s game. I don’t think the latter is fair for players of the past bc they did not have the knowledge we do today about training.
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
So Babe Ruth, should always be around .342 and 46 hrs because that was him in reality even though the real game completely changed since 1935. Makes sense.
This I agree with you becomes difficult because babe Ruth never faced today’s competition and vice versa. Some argue he wouldn’t even be a major league player into today’s game. If your going to have today’s players playing against players of the past, then you can do it one of two ways. Reference the numbers they put up back in their careers, or come up with a formula that you thought would accurately represent him into today’s game. I don’t think the latter is fair for players of the past bc they did not have the knowledge we do today about training.
So, we don't know what Babe Ruth would hit today right? So if we hit .400 with him in this game, what basis of comparison are you using to say that is not realistic?
We can't use his real life stats, because those are from a completely different era right?
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@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
So Babe Ruth, should always be around .342 and 46 hrs because that was him in reality even though the real game completely changed since 1935. Makes sense.
This I agree with you becomes difficult because babe Ruth never faced today’s competition and vice versa. Some argue he wouldn’t even be a major league player into today’s game. If your going to have today’s players playing against players of the past, then you can do it one of two ways. Reference the numbers they put up back in their careers, or come up with a formula that you thought would accurately represent him into today’s game. I don’t think the latter is fair for players of the past bc they did not have the knowledge we do today about training.
So, we don't know what Babe Ruth would hit today right? So if we hit .400 with him in this game, what basis of comparison are you using to say that is not realistic?
We can't use his real life stats, because those are from a completely different era right?
I gave two options, using his stats he put up as a basis I think is a good idea bc he actually did that. Whatever formula we came up with to determine what he would do today, still didn’t really happen.
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@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@LankyRyan said in The high sinker.:
Trying to follow the logic in this thread is giving me brainfreeze.
You should be able to dot strike three with a common pitcher, as long as your input is perfect.
You should be able to hit a HR with a common player with high power, as long as you square it up and have perfect input.
... Period.
The only caveat I would add is that in both scenarios it should be extremely difficult to achieve perfect input because of those player's ratings.
Exactly
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
So Babe Ruth, should always be around .342 and 46 hrs because that was him in reality even though the real game completely changed since 1935. Makes sense.
This I agree with you becomes difficult because babe Ruth never faced today’s competition and vice versa. Some argue he wouldn’t even be a major league player into today’s game. If your going to have today’s players playing against players of the past, then you can do it one of two ways. Reference the numbers they put up back in their careers, or come up with a formula that you thought would accurately represent him into today’s game. I don’t think the latter is fair for players of the past bc they did not have the knowledge we do today about training.
So, we don't know what Babe Ruth would hit today right? So if we hit .400 with him in this game, what basis of comparison are you using to say that is not realistic?
We can't use his real life stats, because those are from a completely different era right?
I gave two options, using his stats he put up as a basis I think is a good idea bc he actually did that. Whatever formula we came up with to determine what he would do today, still didn’t really happen.
I used him as an example, but this is the case in the entire DD H2H world. Players from all different eras playing against each other, many of whom never faced each other.
So, how can we say whatever stats we get with them are "unrealistic" when there are no factual basis of comparisons?
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@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
So Babe Ruth, should always be around .342 and 46 hrs because that was him in reality even though the real game completely changed since 1935. Makes sense.
This I agree with you becomes difficult because babe Ruth never faced today’s competition and vice versa. Some argue he wouldn’t even be a major league player into today’s game. If your going to have today’s players playing against players of the past, then you can do it one of two ways. Reference the numbers they put up back in their careers, or come up with a formula that you thought would accurately represent him into today’s game. I don’t think the latter is fair for players of the past bc they did not have the knowledge we do today about training.
So, we don't know what Babe Ruth would hit today right? So if we hit .400 with him in this game, what basis of comparison are you using to say that is not realistic?
We can't use his real life stats, because those are from a completely different era right?
I gave two options, using his stats he put up as a basis I think is a good idea bc he actually did that. Whatever formula we came up with to determine what he would do today, still didn’t really happen.
I used him as an example, but this is the case in the entire DD H2H world. Players from all different eras playing against each other, many of whom never faced each other.
So, how can we say whatever stats we get with them are "unrealistic" when there are no factual basis of comparisons?
You have to go off the numbers they actually put up.
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
So Babe Ruth, should always be around .342 and 46 hrs because that was him in reality even though the real game completely changed since 1935. Makes sense.
This I agree with you becomes difficult because babe Ruth never faced today’s competition and vice versa. Some argue he wouldn’t even be a major league player into today’s game. If your going to have today’s players playing against players of the past, then you can do it one of two ways. Reference the numbers they put up back in their careers, or come up with a formula that you thought would accurately represent him into today’s game. I don’t think the latter is fair for players of the past bc they did not have the knowledge we do today about training.
So, we don't know what Babe Ruth would hit today right? So if we hit .400 with him in this game, what basis of comparison are you using to say that is not realistic?
We can't use his real life stats, because those are from a completely different era right?
I gave two options, using his stats he put up as a basis I think is a good idea bc he actually did that. Whatever formula we came up with to determine what he would do today, still didn’t really happen.
I used him as an example, but this is the case in the entire DD H2H world. Players from all different eras playing against each other, many of whom never faced each other.
So, how can we say whatever stats we get with them are "unrealistic" when there are no factual basis of comparisons?
You have to go off the numbers they actually put up.
Why? Not one of them had someone in their mind telling them what to do (except maybe Yogi Berra). They were not marionnettes subject to a user's whims.
If you enforce that their virtual stats must closely mirror their RL stats, then again I ask, what point is there in having a user input at all? It's basically The History Channel.
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@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
So Babe Ruth, should always be around .342 and 46 hrs because that was him in reality even though the real game completely changed since 1935. Makes sense.
This I agree with you becomes difficult because babe Ruth never faced today’s competition and vice versa. Some argue he wouldn’t even be a major league player into today’s game. If your going to have today’s players playing against players of the past, then you can do it one of two ways. Reference the numbers they put up back in their careers, or come up with a formula that you thought would accurately represent him into today’s game. I don’t think the latter is fair for players of the past bc they did not have the knowledge we do today about training.
So, we don't know what Babe Ruth would hit today right? So if we hit .400 with him in this game, what basis of comparison are you using to say that is not realistic?
We can't use his real life stats, because those are from a completely different era right?
I gave two options, using his stats he put up as a basis I think is a good idea bc he actually did that. Whatever formula we came up with to determine what he would do today, still didn’t really happen.
I used him as an example, but this is the case in the entire DD H2H world. Players from all different eras playing against each other, many of whom never faced each other.
So, how can we say whatever stats we get with them are "unrealistic" when there are no factual basis of comparisons?
You have to go off the numbers they actually put up.
Why? Not one of them had someone in their mind telling them what to do (except maybe Yogi Berra). They were not marionnettes subject to a user's whims.
If you enforce that their virtual stats must closely mirror their RL stats, then again I ask, what point is there in having a user input at all? It's basically The History Channel.
We discussed this already. Go back and read about decision making by the user.
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I just can’t with this thread lol go play OOTP
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@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
So Babe Ruth, should always be around .342 and 46 hrs because that was him in reality even though the real game completely changed since 1935. Makes sense.
This I agree with you becomes difficult because babe Ruth never faced today’s competition and vice versa. Some argue he wouldn’t even be a major league player into today’s game. If your going to have today’s players playing against players of the past, then you can do it one of two ways. Reference the numbers they put up back in their careers, or come up with a formula that you thought would accurately represent him into today’s game. I don’t think the latter is fair for players of the past bc they did not have the knowledge we do today about training.
So, we don't know what Babe Ruth would hit today right? So if we hit .400 with him in this game, what basis of comparison are you using to say that is not realistic?
We can't use his real life stats, because those are from a completely different era right?
I gave two options, using his stats he put up as a basis I think is a good idea bc he actually did that. Whatever formula we came up with to determine what he would do today, still didn’t really happen.
I used him as an example, but this is the case in the entire DD H2H world. Players from all different eras playing against each other, many of whom never faced each other.
So, how can we say whatever stats we get with them are "unrealistic" when there are no factual basis of comparisons?
You have to go off the numbers they actually put up.
Why? Not one of them had someone in their mind telling them what to do (except maybe Yogi Berra). They were not marionnettes subject to a user's whims.
If you enforce that their virtual stats must closely mirror their RL stats, then again I ask, what point is there in having a user input at all? It's basically The History Channel.
We discussed this already. Go back and read about decision making by the user.
Lol, you're "decision making" argument doesn't allow for the user to be a better decision maker and therefore achieve better results. Don't you see the contradiction?
I will spell it out:
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If I make better decisions with Tony Gwynn, I should be able to hit .400 with him.
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if I make worse decisions with Tony Gwynn, I should be able to hit .180 with him.
Both of these scenarios are completely dependent on my skill and are equally possible.
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@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
So Babe Ruth, should always be around .342 and 46 hrs because that was him in reality even though the real game completely changed since 1935. Makes sense.
This I agree with you becomes difficult because babe Ruth never faced today’s competition and vice versa. Some argue he wouldn’t even be a major league player into today’s game. If your going to have today’s players playing against players of the past, then you can do it one of two ways. Reference the numbers they put up back in their careers, or come up with a formula that you thought would accurately represent him into today’s game. I don’t think the latter is fair for players of the past bc they did not have the knowledge we do today about training.
So, we don't know what Babe Ruth would hit today right? So if we hit .400 with him in this game, what basis of comparison are you using to say that is not realistic?
We can't use his real life stats, because those are from a completely different era right?
I gave two options, using his stats he put up as a basis I think is a good idea bc he actually did that. Whatever formula we came up with to determine what he would do today, still didn’t really happen.
I used him as an example, but this is the case in the entire DD H2H world. Players from all different eras playing against each other, many of whom never faced each other.
So, how can we say whatever stats we get with them are "unrealistic" when there are no factual basis of comparisons?
You have to go off the numbers they actually put up.
Why? Not one of them had someone in their mind telling them what to do (except maybe Yogi Berra). They were not marionnettes subject to a user's whims.
If you enforce that their virtual stats must closely mirror their RL stats, then again I ask, what point is there in having a user input at all? It's basically The History Channel.
We discussed this already. Go back and read about decision making by the user.
Lol, you're "decision making" argument doesn't allow for the user to be a better decision maker and therefore achieve better results. Don't you see the contradiction?
I will spell it out:
-
If I make better decisions with Tony Gwynn, I should be able to hit .400 with him.
-
if I make worse decisions with Tony Gwynn, I should be able to hit .180 with him.
Both of these scenarios are completely dependent on my skill and are equally possible.
Tony Gwynn came close to hitting .400
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@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
@abbyspapa said in The high sinker.:
@sean_87_ said in The high sinker.:
I believe you are referencing players that had poor plate discipline. Yes, it is possible to be more patient than that player was in real life, but for the game to be realistic there is no way you can have him hit for averages that he never came close to achieving in real life. If you don’t keep it realistic, than essentially every card is the same.
So Babe Ruth, should always be around .342 and 46 hrs because that was him in reality even though the real game completely changed since 1935. Makes sense.
This I agree with you becomes difficult because babe Ruth never faced today’s competition and vice versa. Some argue he wouldn’t even be a major league player into today’s game. If your going to have today’s players playing against players of the past, then you can do it one of two ways. Reference the numbers they put up back in their careers, or come up with a formula that you thought would accurately represent him into today’s game. I don’t think the latter is fair for players of the past bc they did not have the knowledge we do today about training.
So, we don't know what Babe Ruth would hit today right? So if we hit .400 with him in this game, what basis of comparison are you using to say that is not realistic?
We can't use his real life stats, because those are from a completely different era right?
I gave two options, using his stats he put up as a basis I think is a good idea bc he actually did that. Whatever formula we came up with to determine what he would do today, still didn’t really happen.
I used him as an example, but this is the case in the entire DD H2H world. Players from all different eras playing against each other, many of whom never faced each other.
So, how can we say whatever stats we get with them are "unrealistic" when there are no factual basis of comparisons?
You have to go off the numbers they actually put up.
Why? Not one of them had someone in their mind telling them what to do (except maybe Yogi Berra). They were not marionnettes subject to a user's whims.
If you enforce that their virtual stats must closely mirror their RL stats, then again I ask, what point is there in having a user input at all? It's basically The History Channel.
We discussed this already. Go back and read about decision making by the user.
Lol, you're "decision making" argument doesn't allow for the user to be a better decision maker and therefore achieve better results. Don't you see the contradiction?
I will spell it out:
-
If I make better decisions with Tony Gwynn, I should be able to hit .400 with him.
-
if I make worse decisions with Tony Gwynn, I should be able to hit .180 with him.
Both of these scenarios are completely dependent on my skill and are equally possible.
We had this discussion already. The decision making is what separates the users.
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