Bryce Harper
-
@SaveFarris_PSN said in Bryce Harper:
@PriorFir4383355_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
Lot's of people tossing around this concept of "force an ownership change." Folks, unless the owner in question violates a written rule of the league, one that explicitly states that violation may result in the league taking over the team to sell, the owner is a courtroom away from having MLB told to pound sand.
That's why MLB needs to write a rule. Or have a Landis-level Commissioner with the power to enforce it unilaterally. (Obviously less likely but still technically doable.)
Yeah, you set the tone for that kind of world. Spend about $1 billion for a team, then place your daily ownership in the hands of someone else who didn't pay a nickel for the team, but who had God-like powers to take it away from you on his personal whims!
Seriously! Do you even contemplate the sort of world you advocate for prior to your writing us on how it should work!
-
Manfred should be better at his job if he doesn't wanna get yelled out a team clubhouse
-
@PriorFir4383355_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
Yeah, you set the tone for that kind of world. Spend about $1 billion for a team, then place your daily ownership in the hands of someone else who didn't pay a nickel for the team, but who had God-like powers to take it away from you on his personal whims!
That's how every other franchised operation works.
If a random Raising Canes owner in South Carolina decides they're going to stop distributing Cane's sauce because they can save 0.2% on operating costs, Todd Graves absolutely has the power to revoke their business.
-
@PriorFir4383355_XBL again, the product is the talent, not the owner. If you believe Manfred is “helping the players”, then I have a bridge to sell you.
-
@squishiesgirl_MLBTS said in Bryce Harper:
@samguenther1987_PSN you do know baseball has had strikes as well right?
O I am well aware, one of them cost Montreal not only the world series but it's team in the long run.
I just don't want to see a long strike for the MLB, but we will see what happens this time.
-
@squishiesgirl_MLBTS said in Bryce Harper:
@yankblan_PSN yeah just found it odd to use a NHL reference as context
Sorry, it was the best reference I could think of at the time seeing this will be due to a salary cap, but yes I could have referenced the 1994 lockout as well.
-
The players will never agree to a cap, not gonna happen. The MLB players union will not go for it unless their is some sort of clause that allows signing bonuses to offset the cost of losing out on higher salaries. It was a sticking point in 1994, and it will be a sticking point in the next negotiation, and Manfred knows it.
-
@Wilbs715_XBL it’s all a PR stunt so he can say “see? I tried to have a dialogue but they refused to negotiate in good faith”. So tired of this song and dance.
-
Here is a good insight on why the Pirates are a losing model currenlty.
-
@yankblan_PSN said in Bryce Harper:
@Wilbs715_XBL it’s all a PR stunt so he can say “see? I tried to have a dialogue but they refused to negotiate in good faith”. So tired of this song and dance.
I thought about that after I posted. Maybe he is trying to read the room and get some feedback from the players, instead he got cussed at.
-
@SaveFarris_PSN said in Bryce Harper:
If a random Raising Canes owner in South Carolina decides they're going to stop distributing Cane's sauce because they can save 0.2% on operating costs, Todd Graves absolutely has the power to revoke their business.
Your metaphor might work if this a discussion of how a team owner decided that he was going to use bright yellow softballs with brown stitches for home games instead of the regulation ball. But this isn't that.
If a Raising Canes owner in South Carolina doesn't want to pay his two best employees $20 an hour and instead chooses to replace them and staff his entire business with minimum wage workers, he has every right to do so and Todd Graves can't do a [censored] thing about it.
-
@yankblan_PSN said in Bryce Harper:
the product is the talent, not the owner.
The product is not the talent. The product is baseball, and the talent are simply employees who deliver that experience to the fans. We as fans have sentimental attachments to those players, and may think we come just because of them, but if Bryce Harper and his $26M annual salary was replaced by Corbin Carroll and his $5.5M salary, the fans would still come if the club was winning. Harper and Carroll are just employees; fans come to experience Phillies baseball.
I agree with a lot of what you say, even that players should get a high percentage of revenue, and certainly that Manfred is not out to altruistically help the players, but those who put forth the capital and, thus, take the risk, are the ones who reap the biggest rewards. It doesn't matter that fans don't come to watch the owner.
-
@The_Joneser_PSN said in Bryce Harper:
If a Raising Canes owner in South Carolina doesn't want to pay his two best employees $20 an hour and instead chooses to replace them and staff his entire business with minimum wage workers, he has every right to do so and Todd Graves can't do a [censored] thing about it.
… until that store misses sales projections for three quarters in a row. At which point the head office steps in.
-
@SaveFarris_PSN, maybe those new minimum wage workers are hungry, up-and-coming, chicken finger slingers... who's to say that the owner wouldn't see his store exceed sales projections because he resisted the calls for high priced labor?
-
@Wilbs715_XBL Even Steinbrenner is making comments about the economics. They are setting the table for discusssions. The owners (who are running a business) can lock this out for as long as they can. Can the players wait them out? That’s what this will boil down to. We can argue all we want about this, but the 30 ownership groups will make the call.
-
@LHUBison58_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
@Wilbs715_XBL Even Steinbrenner is making comments about the economics. They are setting the table for discusssions. The owners (who are running a business) can lock this out for as long as they can. Can the players wait them out? That’s what this will boil down to. We can argue all we want about this, but the 30 ownership groups will make the call.
It's a good debate, no arguing. Let's hope whatever happens, happens quick and doesn't interrupt the game.
-
@Wilbs715_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
@LHUBison58_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
@Wilbs715_XBL Even Steinbrenner is making comments about the economics. They are setting the table for discusssions. The owners (who are running a business) can lock this out for as long as they can. Can the players wait them out? That’s what this will boil down to. We can argue all we want about this, but the 30 ownership groups will make the call.
It's a good debate, no arguing. Let's hope whatever happens, happens quick and doesn't interrupt the game.
I’m sure it is going to be a bit longer than a few months.
Here is another take on all this from a long time journalist in Pittsburgh, Dejan Kovecevic
“ Who represents Harper?
Scott Boras.
Who reported the story, who also happens to be completely in Boras' pocket?
Jon Heyman.
The figurative noose is tightening. Boras hates the power he's lost within the MLBPA -- and it's been a lot in recent months -- and he hates even more that all of his big-name, influential clients are about to be seen as the bad guys by some of their own teammates.”
-
@Wilbs715_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
@LHUBison58_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
@Wilbs715_XBL Even Steinbrenner is making comments about the economics. They are setting the table for discusssions. The owners (who are running a business) can lock this out for as long as they can. Can the players wait them out? That’s what this will boil down to. We can argue all we want about this, but the 30 ownership groups will make the call.
It's a good debate, no arguing. Let's hope whatever happens, happens quick and doesn't interrupt the game.
I sincerely hope the players stop listening to their agents and look at this from the point of view of maximizing salaries for all players. Currently, MLB players are paid about 47% of league revenues. If the players approach this with an open mind, not only can a lockout be avoided and by that avoid angering the fans, but they could likely negotiate a cap that would be at the 52% of annual league revenues, and a floor that would be at about 48% of league revenues.
The players could also negotiate a severe punishment of owners who fail to at least meet the salary floor, and as I wrote earlier, this could be as severe as MLB taking over the team's operation, immediately increasing the team's player salaries to meet the floor, and then putting the owner on a sort of probation, where any future violations could result in the league taking the team away from the owner and putting the team on the market and sending the previous owners whatever monies were left over after meeting all expenses with the sale and temporary operation of the team.
Logically, if all teams are required to spend 48% of league revenues on player salaries each year, and teams could go as high as 52%, then the players wind up making more money than they currently are. The owners are arguing that improving competition will drive up attendance and actually grow the MLB revenue pie, meaning just like we saw with the NFL, the players get paid more and more as the league improved its TV deals and attendance figures.
-
@PriorFir4383355_XBL off the top of my head the nhl revenue split is 50/50 (which I think is much better comparison than the NFL due to the market sizes and the lack of set game days during the week that the nfl has) the nfl has a 48-48.5 players take. The nba is a 50/50 split. The players should be asking for 50% as a minimum.
Using Forbes estimates (mlb doesn’t release financials every year) MLB generated $11.6 billion in revenue in ‘24. Collectively the players were paid ~$5 billion. That is 43% take for the players. A 50/50 split would have netted the players about a billion more. Please keep in mind this all from Forbes and they flat out state it is a very good educated guess.
Additionally, the team control years should drop for all players. They should get to free agency with in three years of the big leagues.
This isn’t a loss for the overwhelming majority of the players. If the owners negotiate to do these things the voting should be a lot easier. Harper’s vote only counts as one vote. There are a lot more Caleb Fergusons in the bigs than Harper level players.
-
@The_Joneser_PSN let’s say the lockout/strike goes on for 2-3 years. Players get together and decide to do 12 teams of their own buddies and tour across the country for 80 games. Broadcast on YouTube. Make it 50$ for the season, all access.
The owners fill 30 teams of replacement players that never saw the bigs and decide to cross the picket line. Games on regular TV as is.
Let’s see where the fans money will go. Money will go to talent. The “risk” is a joke. The tough part is having the money to buy the team in the first place. Sports teams are an ego trip, toys and/or prestige symbol to flip in 20 years. They didn’t start their teams in their father’s garage.
It’s not like they paid for their stadiums out of pocket either.
Paying Harper 15 or 30M a year won’t change ticket prices for fans. Sales determine that.
