Braves sword chop removed?
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@eatyum_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@chriselsman_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@eatyum_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@chriselsman_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@rabid55wolverine said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Amazing to complain that something that is racist is removed from the game, obviously a braves fan and not knowing what it is.
So heredia’s two pink swords that he started the sword chop with magically became tomahawks. By the way explain how making the motion of a inanimate object is racist? Seeing as how Native Americans were not the only people to use such a weapon.
YOUR TEAM NAME IS THE BRAVES, you aren't referencing other people using that weapon. But you already know that and just want to dance around and play whatsaboutim.
I don’t have to dance around anything you cannot come up with argument to make me believe that the tomahawk chop is racist. You didn’t even reply to my question explain how making the motion of a inanimate object is racist? answer that question. Then explain to me why a sword chop which the players are doing is racist as well. I will wait.
Because it's imitating a stereotype of native Americans, you need look no further then their past logos of a Indian 'Brave" to see what image they are trying to present with the chop.
Also I don't need to make you believe the tomahawk chop is racist, it is racist whether you believe it is or not. It's no skin off m
y back if you don't believe it is, just shows the kind of person you are.The sword chopping is just a play off that, and if you are "sword' chopping to the same music of the tomahawk chop, then you really are just doing the same thing with a different name as a fan. I'm not calling any of the players racist, but if the fans are making the same motion with the same music, there is no difference because it's just a modification, you guys aren't holding pink swords.
Now that I've explained all that, I can't wait to hear your response, just kidding. This debate will not change your mind or my mind. There is no argument I can come up with to change your mind because you don't want your mind changed, you want everything status quo, you want to be able to hold onto that racist past because you can't survive without that image. So good day.
First of all I am open to changing my mind about things but I want to have a proper civil discussion about it. I am not hard headed and open to changing my mind but allow me to respond below.
So here’s the thing the sword chop celebration is not done to any sort of music.the only time it is done when any music is playing is by the outfielders after a win and the music playing is not the tomahawk chop music but the music played when the Braves win. You can find it on YouTube and tell right away it’s not the tomahawk music.
Now as for the tomahawk chop. As I said before the tomahawk is an inanimate object. The tomahawk which is weapon was used by more then just native Americans. As I said before also used by the Vikings they called it an axe though also what we consider today to be an axe they called a Dane. So let us breakdown the “tomahawk chop”. Again the tomahawk is not a person but a thing an object and therefore because of that the term racist does not apply to it by definition of racist. Because you can only be racist against a person or group of people not inanimate objects. Secondly chop. Chop is not a person or thing but an action that is used when chopping something whether it be food or wood and objects that are used for that include a sword, an axe, a knife, and a hatchet. So when a person does a motion of a chop. They are simply imitating an act of someone using that object. Which by they has been used by more then just native Americans and also not all Native American tribes used a tomahawk so saying it is a stereotype is wrong. But at the end let me ask you this question. You have more then likely been to mall and been to said mall’s food court and have either eaten at one of many places or seen the people eating food from one of the places. As in like almost all mall’s there are either Chinese or Japanese places to get some food and both offer chopsticks. So let me ask you when you see someone using chopsticks or maybe you yourself have used chopsticks (I don’t know if you have or not just simply asking for the question.) are the people who are using chopsticks or you yourself racist for using chopsticks?
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@dap1234567890 said in Braves sword chop removed?:
The tomahawk chop is not racist!!!
CNN sure thinks it is
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@chriselsman_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@eatyum_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@chriselsman_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@eatyum_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@chriselsman_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@rabid55wolverine said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Amazing to complain that something that is racist is removed from the game, obviously a braves fan and not knowing what it is.
So heredia’s two pink swords that he started the sword chop with magically became tomahawks. By the way explain how making the motion of a inanimate object is racist? Seeing as how Native Americans were not the only people to use such a weapon.
YOUR TEAM NAME IS THE BRAVES, you aren't referencing other people using that weapon. But you already know that and just want to dance around and play whatsaboutim.
I don’t have to dance around anything you cannot come up with argument to make me believe that the tomahawk chop is racist. You didn’t even reply to my question explain how making the motion of a inanimate object is racist? answer that question. Then explain to me why a sword chop which the players are doing is racist as well. I will wait.
Because it's imitating a stereotype of native Americans, you need look no further then their past logos of a Indian 'Brave" to see what image they are trying to present with the chop.
Also I don't need to make you believe the tomahawk chop is racist, it is racist whether you believe it is or not. It's no skin off m
y back if you don't believe it is, just shows the kind of person you are.The sword chopping is just a play off that, and if you are "sword' chopping to the same music of the tomahawk chop, then you really are just doing the same thing with a different name as a fan. I'm not calling any of the players racist, but if the fans are making the same motion with the same music, there is no difference because it's just a modification, you guys aren't holding pink swords.
Now that I've explained all that, I can't wait to hear your response, just kidding. This debate will not change your mind or my mind. There is no argument I can come up with to change your mind because you don't want your mind changed, you want everything status quo, you want to be able to hold onto that racist past because you can't survive without that image. So good day.
First of all I am open to changing my mind about things but I want to have a proper civil discussion about it. I am not hard headed and open to changing my mind but allow me to respond below.
So here’s the thing the sword chop celebration is not done to any sort of music.the only time it is done when any music is playing is by the outfielders after a win and the music playing is not the tomahawk chop music but the music played when the Braves win. You can find it on YouTube and tell right away it’s not the tomahawk music.
Now as for the tomahawk chop. As I said before the tomahawk is an inanimate object. The tomahawk which is weapon was used by more then just native Americans. As I said before also used by the Vikings they called it an axe though also what we consider today to be an axe they called a Dane. So let us breakdown the “tomahawk chop”. Again the tomahawk is not a person but a thing an object and therefore because of that the term racist does not apply to it by definition of racist. Because you can only be racist against a person or group of people not inanimate objects. Secondly chop. Chop is not a person or thing but an action that is used when chopping something whether it be food or wood and objects that are used for that include a sword, an axe, a knife, and a hatchet. So when a person does a motion of a chop. They are simply imitating an act of someone using that object. Which by they has been used by more then just native Americans and also not all Native American tribes used a tomahawk so saying it is a stereotype is wrong. But at the end let me ask you this question. You have more then likely been to mall and been to said mall’s food court and have either eaten at one of many places or seen the people eating food from one of the places. As in like almost all mall’s there are either Chinese or Japanese places to get some food and both offer chopsticks. So let me ask you when you see someone using chopsticks or maybe you yourself have used chopsticks (I don’t know if you have or not just simply asking for the question.) are the people who are using chopsticks or you yourself racist for using chopsticks?
Again, you simply aren't getting it. Your team name is the Braves, not the vikings. It doesn't matter if vikings used it etc. You are "imitating" a stereotype of the indians, you are telling me that music and the sound you guys make aren't imitating that?
Let me repeat that again, YOUR TEAM NAME IS THE BRAVES. They didn't decide to do a tomahawk chop because the VIkings used it, they did it because there team name is the BRAVES so they are doing a stereotype of a INDIAN BRAVE.
Just because not all Indians used it doesn't make it not a stereotype of an Indian, because infact that is exactly partly why it is a stereotype. People just picture Indians with tomahawks scalping people. That is the stereotype.
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But removing racist things will offend MAGA people and "True Patriots".
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Using chopsticks in a food court is the same thing as doing something for years that EVERYONE knows it's for is not even close to the same thing.
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Time to remove all celebrations, team nicknames and logos from the game. Something will always offend somebody. Let’s just go with city names, plain uniforms and polite golf claps just to be safe.
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@ncbravesfan82_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Time to remove all celebrations, team nicknames and logos from the game. Something will always offend somebody. Let’s just go with city names, plain uniforms and polite golf claps just to be safe.
Ah yes the hyperbole to deflect
"If we can't be racist towards Native Americans we might as well not celebrate at all!"
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@eatyum_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@ncbravesfan82_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Time to remove all celebrations, team nicknames and logos from the game. Something will always offend somebody. Let’s just go with city names, plain uniforms and polite golf claps just to be safe.
Ah yes the hyperbole to deflect
"If we can't be racist towards Native Americans we might as well not celebrate at all!"
It's so sad isn't it, like beating your head against a wall.
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@eatyum_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@ncbravesfan82_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Time to remove all celebrations, team nicknames and logos from the game. Something will always offend somebody. Let’s just go with city names, plain uniforms and polite golf claps just to be safe.
Ah yes the hyperbole to deflect
"If we can't be racist towards Native Americans we might as well not celebrate at all!"
Except that there’s no racist intent, so how is it racist? It’s a cheer meant to spur on a baseball team. Plain and simple. Most Native Americans don’t even care. Heck, the leader of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians was even on the broadcast the other night and said they have a great partnership with the “Braves”. But by all means, let’s take something meant for the sports world and make it political. Smh
Back to the sword chop, that doesn’t even have anything to do with the name or Native Americans. It’s just something fun that Guillermo Heredia came up with to celebrate hits by his teammates. Not directed at anyone or anything, so what’s the problem?
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@eatyum_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@ncbravesfan82_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Time to remove all celebrations, team nicknames and logos from the game. Something will always offend somebody. Let’s just go with city names, plain uniforms and polite golf claps just to be safe.
Ah yes the hyperbole to deflect
"If we can't be racist towards Native Americans we might as well not celebrate at all!"
After looking online, what he is talking about is not a chop more of a slash and it’s done by the players. No racist intent at all.
Now my question, was it ever in the game? I don’t play franchise so I’m not sure what has or hasn’t been there
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@eatyum_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Again, you simply aren't getting it. Your team name is the Braves, not the vikings. It doesn't matter if vikings used it etc. You are "imitating" a stereotype of the indians, you are telling me that music and the sound you guys make aren't imitating that?
Let me repeat that again, YOUR TEAM NAME IS THE BRAVES. They didn't decide to do a tomahawk chop because the VIkings used it, they did it because there team name is the BRAVES so they are doing a stereotype of a INDIAN BRAVE.
Just because not all Indians used it doesn't make it not a stereotype of an Indian, because infact that is exactly partly why it is a stereotype. People just picture Indians with tomahawks scalping people. That is the stereotype.
So you continue to say the same thing that it is imitating native Americans. So I never said that the Vikings were the reason for the Braves using the tomahawk chop. I said that because that means that more then one race of people have used that weapon. But your argument holds no standing. After stating all my reasons and after you read my reply you could not come up with anything to contradict what I said. You and every single person that said it is racist obliviously don’t know the meaning of the word racist so I will put it in here for you.
Racist = prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
By saying that the action that is associated with a tomahawk does not fall under that. The tomahawk as I said before is an object and not a person. If you see someone using a tomahawk are you going to call them racist for using it? Are you going to call someone who isn’t Asian racist for using chopsticks? Are you going to call people who aren’t from Africa who use saw’s racist? Are you going to call someone who isn’t Chinese racist for using fireworks? Are you going to call people who aren’t from Egypt racist for using toothpaste?
You and everyone who reads those questions are probably going to say to yourself he’s stupid for asking those questions. But all the items I listed came from those countries. So anyone who isn’t from those countries or a person of that ethnicity who uses those items are racist according to the logic used by people who call the tomahawk chop racist.
I will say this again. The tomahawk is an object and the chopping part is motion none of which can be racist. I would like for you or anyone else answer those questions.
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@foge011_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@eatyum_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@ncbravesfan82_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Time to remove all celebrations, team nicknames and logos from the game. Something will always offend somebody. Let’s just go with city names, plain uniforms and polite golf claps just to be safe.
Ah yes the hyperbole to deflect
"If we can't be racist towards Native Americans we might as well not celebrate at all!"
After looking online, what he is talking about is not a chop more of a slash and it’s done by the players. No racist intent at all.
Now my question, was it ever in the game? I don’t play franchise so I’m not sure what has or hasn’t been there
Yes it was in the game.
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@chriselsman_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@eatyum_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Again, you simply aren't getting it. Your team name is the Braves, not the vikings. It doesn't matter if vikings used it etc. You are "imitating" a stereotype of the indians, you are telling me that music and the sound you guys make aren't imitating that?
Let me repeat that again, YOUR TEAM NAME IS THE BRAVES. They didn't decide to do a tomahawk chop because the VIkings used it, they did it because there team name is the BRAVES so they are doing a stereotype of a INDIAN BRAVE.
Just because not all Indians used it doesn't make it not a stereotype of an Indian, because infact that is exactly partly why it is a stereotype. People just picture Indians with tomahawks scalping people. That is the stereotype.
So you continue to say the same thing that it is imitating native Americans. So I never said that the Vikings were the reason for the Braves using the tomahawk chop. I said that because that means that more then one race of people have used that weapon. But your argument holds no standing. After stating all my reasons and after you read my reply you could not come up with anything to contradict what I said. You and every single person that said it is racist obliviously don’t know the meaning of the word racist so I will put it in here for you.
Racist = prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
By saying that the action that is associated with a tomahawk does not fall under that. The tomahawk as I said before is an object and not a person. If you see someone using a tomahawk are you going to call them racist for using it? Are you going to call someone who isn’t Asian racist for using chopsticks? Are you going to call people who aren’t from Africa who use saw’s racist? Are you going to call someone who isn’t Chinese racist for using fireworks? Are you going to call people who aren’t from Egypt racist for using toothpaste?
You and everyone who reads those questions are probably going to say to yourself he’s stupid for asking those questions. But all the items I listed came from those countries. So anyone who isn’t from those countries or a person of that ethnicity who uses those items are racist according to the logic used by people who call the tomahawk chop racist.
I will say this again. The tomahawk is an object and the chopping part is motion none of which can be racist. I would like for you or anyone else answer those questions.
Come on man… it is universally accepted that the tomahawk chop is a racist gesture. Next thing you’ll say is white sheets with pointy hats isn’t racist either
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Um American Indians in the past never used a tomahawk, nor scalped people? It's historic fact that it happened.
Why don't you ask American Indians? So what you're saying is that we have to sterilize everything because someone gets offended. That's not a healthy way of living. Just like renaming Cleveland Indians to Guardians. Did you do a poll of American Indians whether or not they liked or disliked or were indifferent to having a team named after them?
Redskins I get, but Indians? It's getting rediculous.
Should I get offended that there are teams called Giants? I'm a short person. Where are the Shorts teams?
Vikings have done unspeakable things during their age. Should be change the Vikings name to something less offensive?
Do you know where the word Cowboys came from? If you knew you'd probably want that team name changed.
I could go on.
Look, from my perspective it seems like some small % of people want to delete history. Like removing statues etc. If we bleach everything we don't like, is it possible in the future the bad parts of history could repeat itself? We need to understand that just because something offends you, it doesn't mean you are right. It just means you don't understand the importance of history and how we need to learn from it.
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@rabid55wolverine said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Using chopsticks in a food court is the same thing as doing something for years that EVERYONE knows it's for is not even close to the same thing.
I don't think you understand. If a small group of Asians complain about non Asians using chopsticks in sure someone in media will talk about it.
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@foge011_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@chriselsman_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@eatyum_psn said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Again, you simply aren't getting it. Your team name is the Braves, not the vikings. It doesn't matter if vikings used it etc. You are "imitating" a stereotype of the indians, you are telling me that music and the sound you guys make aren't imitating that?
Let me repeat that again, YOUR TEAM NAME IS THE BRAVES. They didn't decide to do a tomahawk chop because the VIkings used it, they did it because there team name is the BRAVES so they are doing a stereotype of a INDIAN BRAVE.
Just because not all Indians used it doesn't make it not a stereotype of an Indian, because infact that is exactly partly why it is a stereotype. People just picture Indians with tomahawks scalping people. That is the stereotype.
So you continue to say the same thing that it is imitating native Americans. So I never said that the Vikings were the reason for the Braves using the tomahawk chop. I said that because that means that more then one race of people have used that weapon. But your argument holds no standing. After stating all my reasons and after you read my reply you could not come up with anything to contradict what I said. You and every single person that said it is racist obliviously don’t know the meaning of the word racist so I will put it in here for you.
Racist = prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
By saying that the action that is associated with a tomahawk does not fall under that. The tomahawk as I said before is an object and not a person. If you see someone using a tomahawk are you going to call them racist for using it? Are you going to call someone who isn’t Asian racist for using chopsticks? Are you going to call people who aren’t from Africa who use saw’s racist? Are you going to call someone who isn’t Chinese racist for using fireworks? Are you going to call people who aren’t from Egypt racist for using toothpaste?
You and everyone who reads those questions are probably going to say to yourself he’s stupid for asking those questions. But all the items I listed came from those countries. So anyone who isn’t from those countries or a person of that ethnicity who uses those items are racist according to the logic used by people who call the tomahawk chop racist.
I will say this again. The tomahawk is an object and the chopping part is motion none of which can be racist. I would like for you or anyone else answer those questions.
Come on man… it is universally accepted that the tomahawk chop is a racist gesture. Next thing you’ll say is white sheets with pointy hats isn’t racist either
This isn't the MCU. Why use the word "universally"?
I'M OFFENDED!
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Anyway, my point is: Life is too short. We need to learn from history. We need to be careful what we sterilize. The children of the future need to learn the good and bad of history. So we never repeat the bad and continue to promote the good.
There's a reason bad things tend to happen. Many people were never taught or paid attention to history.
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@jacky-chan1_xbl said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Anyway, my point is: Life is too short. We need to learn from history. We need to be careful what we sterilize. The children of the future need to learn the good and bad of history. So we never repeat the bad and continue to promote the good.
There's a reason bad things tend to happen. Many people were never taught or paid attention to history.
Addressing the removing statue part, removing the statue doesn't erase the history, it can still be easily taught. The statue isn't the only thing keeping us from forgetting it happened. It's just removing something that was built to honor something that shouldn't have been honored. I'm sure you've heard of the story of Americans tearing down statues of King George during the revolutionary war and making musketballs out of them. They no longer wanted to have those statues honoring him.
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@jacky-chan1_xbl said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Anyway, my point is: Life is too short. We need to learn from history. We need to be careful what we sterilize. The children of the future need to learn the good and bad of history. So we never repeat the bad and continue to promote the good.
There's a reason bad things tend to happen. Many people were never taught or paid attention to history.
Here in Arizona schools aren't allowed to discuss the civil war because it might offend the student of racist parents who don't like to be reminded that the south lost and that the war was about states rights to own slaves. This is why bad things are happening are going to continue to escalate sadly.
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@theblindrhino said in Braves sword chop removed?:
@jacky-chan1_xbl said in Braves sword chop removed?:
Anyway, my point is: Life is too short. We need to learn from history. We need to be careful what we sterilize. The children of the future need to learn the good and bad of history. So we never repeat the bad and continue to promote the good.
There's a reason bad things tend to happen. Many people were never taught or paid attention to history.
Here in Arizona schools aren't allowed to discuss the civil war because it might offend the student of racist parents who don't like to be reminded that the south lost and that the war was about states rights to own slaves. This is why bad things are happening are going to continue to escalate sadly.
Agreed
