Jack Leiter’s first start
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@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
IMO, Zito's curve was not all that great. Max Fried has the same curveball style. I think Kerry Wood or Verlander had the best curves. Curves that are thrown hard with late bite is difficult to pick up. But I'm excited about Leiter. He looked legit in college.
IMO, the pitch you’re describing is what a slider is intended for. A well thrown, slower 12-6 can really eff with a batters timing and straight up make major league batters look silly. Nothing against the power curve, but if you’re going with a curve and a slider, give me the slower curve to mix up speed differentials.
literally what I was thinking, playing throughout my life you could be timed for a fastball and a hard power curve you could hold hands back and flick it through the 5 hole ... a slow loopy zito esque CB??? youre sitting one or the other not both
Or you can just look fastball and react to a loopy curve. Because you know that 75mph curve isn’t blowing by you. Hard curves start with a similar plane as a fastball. Pretty hard to keep hands back and balanced when it’s too late picking up the spin.
just was my personal take as a D1 outfielder but sure okay.
I've played D1 as well. So yeah, I have a decent understanding as well. Zito's curve never made him a strike out pitcher.
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@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
IMO, Zito's curve was not all that great. Max Fried has the same curveball style. I think Kerry Wood or Verlander had the best curves. Curves that are thrown hard with late bite is difficult to pick up. But I'm excited about Leiter. He looked legit in college.
IMO, the pitch you’re describing is what a slider is intended for. A well thrown, slower 12-6 can really eff with a batters timing and straight up make major league batters look silly. Nothing against the power curve, but if you’re going with a curve and a slider, give me the slower curve to mix up speed differentials.
literally what I was thinking, playing throughout my life you could be timed for a fastball and a hard power curve you could hold hands back and flick it through the 5 hole ... a slow loopy zito esque CB??? youre sitting one or the other not both
Or you can just look fastball and react to a loopy curve. Because you know that 75mph curve isn’t blowing by you. Hard curves start with a similar plane as a fastball. Pretty hard to keep hands back and balanced when it’s too late picking up the spin.
just was my personal take as a D1 outfielder but sure okay.
I've played D1 as well. So yeah, I have a decent understanding as well. Zito's curve never made him a strike out pitcher.
Yeah, it only won him a Cy Young. You right tho, dude sucked.
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@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
IMO, Zito's curve was not all that great. Max Fried has the same curveball style. I think Kerry Wood or Verlander had the best curves. Curves that are thrown hard with late bite is difficult to pick up. But I'm excited about Leiter. He looked legit in college.
IMO, the pitch you’re describing is what a slider is intended for. A well thrown, slower 12-6 can really eff with a batters timing and straight up make major league batters look silly. Nothing against the power curve, but if you’re going with a curve and a slider, give me the slower curve to mix up speed differentials.
literally what I was thinking, playing throughout my life you could be timed for a fastball and a hard power curve you could hold hands back and flick it through the 5 hole ... a slow loopy zito esque CB??? youre sitting one or the other not both
Or you can just look fastball and react to a loopy curve. Because you know that 75mph curve isn’t blowing by you. Hard curves start with a similar plane as a fastball. Pretty hard to keep hands back and balanced when it’s too late picking up the spin.
just was my personal take as a D1 outfielder but sure okay.
I've played D1 as well. So yeah, I have a decent understanding as well. Zito's curve never made him a strike out pitcher.
I mean he placed top 10 in ks 3x times and was at or above league average k/9 but sure
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@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
IMO, Zito's curve was not all that great. Max Fried has the same curveball style. I think Kerry Wood or Verlander had the best curves. Curves that are thrown hard with late bite is difficult to pick up. But I'm excited about Leiter. He looked legit in college.
IMO, the pitch you’re describing is what a slider is intended for. A well thrown, slower 12-6 can really eff with a batters timing and straight up make major league batters look silly. Nothing against the power curve, but if you’re going with a curve and a slider, give me the slower curve to mix up speed differentials.
literally what I was thinking, playing throughout my life you could be timed for a fastball and a hard power curve you could hold hands back and flick it through the 5 hole ... a slow loopy zito esque CB??? youre sitting one or the other not both
Or you can just look fastball and react to a loopy curve. Because you know that 75mph curve isn’t blowing by you. Hard curves start with a similar plane as a fastball. Pretty hard to keep hands back and balanced when it’s too late picking up the spin.
just was my personal take as a D1 outfielder but sure okay.
I've played D1 as well. So yeah, I have a decent understanding as well. Zito's curve never made him a strike out pitcher.
Yeah, it only won him a Cy Young. You right tho, dude sucked.
Never said he sucked. I said he didn't have the best curve. Maddux didn't have the best fastball or changeup, but he did alright for himself.
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@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
IMO, Zito's curve was not all that great. Max Fried has the same curveball style. I think Kerry Wood or Verlander had the best curves. Curves that are thrown hard with late bite is difficult to pick up. But I'm excited about Leiter. He looked legit in college.
IMO, the pitch you’re describing is what a slider is intended for. A well thrown, slower 12-6 can really eff with a batters timing and straight up make major league batters look silly. Nothing against the power curve, but if you’re going with a curve and a slider, give me the slower curve to mix up speed differentials.
literally what I was thinking, playing throughout my life you could be timed for a fastball and a hard power curve you could hold hands back and flick it through the 5 hole ... a slow loopy zito esque CB??? youre sitting one or the other not both
Or you can just look fastball and react to a loopy curve. Because you know that 75mph curve isn’t blowing by you. Hard curves start with a similar plane as a fastball. Pretty hard to keep hands back and balanced when it’s too late picking up the spin.
just was my personal take as a D1 outfielder but sure okay.
I've played D1 as well. So yeah, I have a decent understanding as well. Zito's curve never made him a strike out pitcher.
I mean he placed top 10 in ks 3x times and was at or above league average k/9 but sure
Zito averaged 4-5 K's per start. The dude did not have a strike out pitch. His curve wasn't fooling too many players.
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@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
IMO, Zito's curve was not all that great. Max Fried has the same curveball style. I think Kerry Wood or Verlander had the best curves. Curves that are thrown hard with late bite is difficult to pick up. But I'm excited about Leiter. He looked legit in college.
IMO, the pitch you’re describing is what a slider is intended for. A well thrown, slower 12-6 can really eff with a batters timing and straight up make major league batters look silly. Nothing against the power curve, but if you’re going with a curve and a slider, give me the slower curve to mix up speed differentials.
literally what I was thinking, playing throughout my life you could be timed for a fastball and a hard power curve you could hold hands back and flick it through the 5 hole ... a slow loopy zito esque CB??? youre sitting one or the other not both
Or you can just look fastball and react to a loopy curve. Because you know that 75mph curve isn’t blowing by you. Hard curves start with a similar plane as a fastball. Pretty hard to keep hands back and balanced when it’s too late picking up the spin.
just was my personal take as a D1 outfielder but sure okay.
I've played D1 as well. So yeah, I have a decent understanding as well. Zito's curve never made him a strike out pitcher.
I mean he placed top 10 in ks 3x times and was at or above league average k/9 but sure
Zito averaged 4-5 K's per start. The dude did not have a strike out pitch. His curve wasn't fooling too many players.
so outside your opinion, and ignoring my facts based on his career stats including the at or above league average for k/9 and was top 10 in k/s including top 5 2x time? I mean if were just ignoring things and just making statements with no back up then ok man, sure he wasnt,
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@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
IMO, Zito's curve was not all that great. Max Fried has the same curveball style. I think Kerry Wood or Verlander had the best curves. Curves that are thrown hard with late bite is difficult to pick up. But I'm excited about Leiter. He looked legit in college.
IMO, the pitch you’re describing is what a slider is intended for. A well thrown, slower 12-6 can really eff with a batters timing and straight up make major league batters look silly. Nothing against the power curve, but if you’re going with a curve and a slider, give me the slower curve to mix up speed differentials.
literally what I was thinking, playing throughout my life you could be timed for a fastball and a hard power curve you could hold hands back and flick it through the 5 hole ... a slow loopy zito esque CB??? youre sitting one or the other not both
Or you can just look fastball and react to a loopy curve. Because you know that 75mph curve isn’t blowing by you. Hard curves start with a similar plane as a fastball. Pretty hard to keep hands back and balanced when it’s too late picking up the spin.
just was my personal take as a D1 outfielder but sure okay.
I've played D1 as well. So yeah, I have a decent understanding as well. Zito's curve never made him a strike out pitcher.
I mean he placed top 10 in ks 3x times and was at or above league average k/9 but sure
Zito averaged 4-5 K's per start. The dude did not have a strike out pitch. His curve wasn't fooling too many players.
so outside your opinion, and ignoring my facts based on his career stats including the at or above league average for k/9 and was top 10 in k/s including top 5 2x time? I mean if were just ignoring things and just making statements with no back up then ok man, sure he wasnt,
Where did you find your "facts"? Because they seem a little off and cherry picked. He was top 10 only once in K's and once in k/9. So, if you call that a strike out artist, then sure. I got my info from baseball reference in case you were wondering.
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@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
IMO, Zito's curve was not all that great. Max Fried has the same curveball style. I think Kerry Wood or Verlander had the best curves. Curves that are thrown hard with late bite is difficult to pick up. But I'm excited about Leiter. He looked legit in college.
IMO, the pitch you’re describing is what a slider is intended for. A well thrown, slower 12-6 can really eff with a batters timing and straight up make major league batters look silly. Nothing against the power curve, but if you’re going with a curve and a slider, give me the slower curve to mix up speed differentials.
literally what I was thinking, playing throughout my life you could be timed for a fastball and a hard power curve you could hold hands back and flick it through the 5 hole ... a slow loopy zito esque CB??? youre sitting one or the other not both
Or you can just look fastball and react to a loopy curve. Because you know that 75mph curve isn’t blowing by you. Hard curves start with a similar plane as a fastball. Pretty hard to keep hands back and balanced when it’s too late picking up the spin.
just was my personal take as a D1 outfielder but sure okay.
I've played D1 as well. So yeah, I have a decent understanding as well. Zito's curve never made him a strike out pitcher.
I mean he placed top 10 in ks 3x times and was at or above league average k/9 but sure
Zito averaged 4-5 K's per start. The dude did not have a strike out pitch. His curve wasn't fooling too many players.
so outside your opinion, and ignoring my facts based on his career stats including the at or above league average for k/9 and was top 10 in k/s including top 5 2x time? I mean if were just ignoring things and just making statements with no back up then ok man, sure he wasnt,
Where did you find your "facts"? Because they seem a little off and cherry picked. He was top 10 only once in K's and once in k/9. So, if you call that a strike out artist, then sure. I got my info from baseball reference in case you were wondering.
Dude, this a post about Jack Leiter’s first start and you’re talking about whether or not Zito’s curveball was a strikeout pitch. Go argue with yourself on another thread.
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@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
IMO, Zito's curve was not all that great. Max Fried has the same curveball style. I think Kerry Wood or Verlander had the best curves. Curves that are thrown hard with late bite is difficult to pick up. But I'm excited about Leiter. He looked legit in college.
IMO, the pitch you’re describing is what a slider is intended for. A well thrown, slower 12-6 can really eff with a batters timing and straight up make major league batters look silly. Nothing against the power curve, but if you’re going with a curve and a slider, give me the slower curve to mix up speed differentials.
literally what I was thinking, playing throughout my life you could be timed for a fastball and a hard power curve you could hold hands back and flick it through the 5 hole ... a slow loopy zito esque CB??? youre sitting one or the other not both
Or you can just look fastball and react to a loopy curve. Because you know that 75mph curve isn’t blowing by you. Hard curves start with a similar plane as a fastball. Pretty hard to keep hands back and balanced when it’s too late picking up the spin.
just was my personal take as a D1 outfielder but sure okay.
I've played D1 as well. So yeah, I have a decent understanding as well. Zito's curve never made him a strike out pitcher.
I mean he placed top 10 in ks 3x times and was at or above league average k/9 but sure
Zito averaged 4-5 K's per start. The dude did not have a strike out pitch. His curve wasn't fooling too many players.
so outside your opinion, and ignoring my facts based on his career stats including the at or above league average for k/9 and was top 10 in k/s including top 5 2x time? I mean if were just ignoring things and just making statements with no back up then ok man, sure he wasnt,
Where did you find your "facts"? Because they seem a little off and cherry picked. He was top 10 only once in K's and once in k/9. So, if you call that a strike out artist, then sure. I got my info from baseball reference in case you were wondering.
Dude, this a post about Jack Leiter’s first start and you’re talking about whether or not Zito’s curveball was a strikeout pitch. Go argue with yourself on another thread.
I could have sworn you mentioned zito in your post. And others mentioned he struck out a lot of people with it. But hey if you haven’t watched a lot of baseball in your life, it’s cool.
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@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@hollywap35_mlbts said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@daddydingerz_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
@matt_42187_psn said in Jack Leiter’s first start:
IMO, Zito's curve was not all that great. Max Fried has the same curveball style. I think Kerry Wood or Verlander had the best curves. Curves that are thrown hard with late bite is difficult to pick up. But I'm excited about Leiter. He looked legit in college.
IMO, the pitch you’re describing is what a slider is intended for. A well thrown, slower 12-6 can really eff with a batters timing and straight up make major league batters look silly. Nothing against the power curve, but if you’re going with a curve and a slider, give me the slower curve to mix up speed differentials.
literally what I was thinking, playing throughout my life you could be timed for a fastball and a hard power curve you could hold hands back and flick it through the 5 hole ... a slow loopy zito esque CB??? youre sitting one or the other not both
Or you can just look fastball and react to a loopy curve. Because you know that 75mph curve isn’t blowing by you. Hard curves start with a similar plane as a fastball. Pretty hard to keep hands back and balanced when it’s too late picking up the spin.
just was my personal take as a D1 outfielder but sure okay.
I've played D1 as well. So yeah, I have a decent understanding as well. Zito's curve never made him a strike out pitcher.
I mean he placed top 10 in ks 3x times and was at or above league average k/9 but sure
Zito averaged 4-5 K's per start. The dude did not have a strike out pitch. His curve wasn't fooling too many players.
so outside your opinion, and ignoring my facts based on his career stats including the at or above league average for k/9 and was top 10 in k/s including top 5 2x time? I mean if were just ignoring things and just making statements with no back up then ok man, sure he wasnt,
Where did you find your "facts"? Because they seem a little off and cherry picked. He was top 10 only once in K's and once in k/9. So, if you call that a strike out artist, then sure. I got my info from baseball reference in case you were wondering.
Dude, this a post about Jack Leiter’s first start and you’re talking about whether or not Zito’s curveball was a strikeout pitch. Go argue with yourself on another thread.
I could have sworn you mentioned zito in your post. And others mentioned he struck out a lot of people with it. But hey if you haven’t watched a lot of baseball in your life, it’s cool.
Honestly dude, you lost all validity the second you said Zito’s curveball was not that great. You don’t have to think it was the best ever, but saying it wasn’t great is nonsense and makes you look ignorant. I entertained a back and forth with you, and you brought up several good points about the power curve versus the slower 12-6, but you fail to acknowledge others’ side to the argument. The more drawn out the argument goes the more condescending you are and the more you twist the argument to what best fits you. No one said Zito or his curveball were strikeout machines. YOU brought that up with intentions of “proving” that his curveball was not good. Zito had PLENTY of strikeouts on the pitch, but also a lot of weak contact of unbalanced swings and missed barrels. There’s nothing left to say on either side. You’re entitled to your opinion of thinking Zito’s curveball wasn’t that great, you’ll just be in the overwhelming minority.
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