Question for the stats dudes.....holds
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@dap1234567890 said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
@ericulous1_psn said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
@dap1234567890 said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
@ericulous1_psn said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
@dap1234567890 said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
@dirty-shawnchez_psn said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
@samguenther1987 said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
Yah I'm not sure on this one, that's a bit of a head scratcher. I could understand if the bases had been loaded and it was 5-1 but thats clearly not the case. I'd be interested if someone smarter then me can figgure this one out. Sorry I can't be pf further help here.
I'm thinking because the second relief pitcher came in with a 5 run lead and it wasn't considered a hold.
5 runs is too big of a lead unless you pitch at least three innings in relief or there are at least two runners on base.
This is what I believed to be the case. But I consistently get holds when I'm winning by far more than 3 runs but never after the 7th inning.
In this case I was up 5-0 nobody on base in either inning, 1 guy gets a hold, the other doesn't. But earlier I won 14-0 (I'm still grinding the last bits of TA5) and I got a hold. But to your point, the unofficial rule IRL is exactly what you wrote. Weird.
Does the inning have anything to do with it? I usually get holds in the 6th and or 7th when I have big leads, but never the 8th.
Thank you all for your input. I am way too tired to think logically.
The inning could have an impact...if the SP pitched less than 4 and 2/3 innings, the first RP is in line for the decision (W or L) at the time of coming in and therefore will not get a hold. For MLB The Show, this is not true for 3-inning games (obviously!).
Oh that brings up a new question. In a 9 inning game, let's say I use an opener and he goes 1 inning, them I bring in another pitcher. How far does he have to go to get the win? Same...through the 5th? Or is the second pitcher on the hook once he takes the ball?
I should go to bed, but I must redeem myself after only scoring 5 against the Orioles on rookie....ouch.
No innings pitched required, but to be safe get at least 1 out. However, remember the new rule this season that requires any pitcher coming in from the 'pen to pitch to either 3 batters or end an inning.
Oh yeah, i always forget that haha. Thanks.
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Sometimes in cpu bash games I could have a large lead. I take out my starter after let's say 6. Seems like no matter if it's a big lead, the reliever that pitches 3 or more inning gets a save. Weird.
In Conquest I like to do 'W,H,S' games.
Starter pitches 1 leaves with lead-Win. Reliever 1 inning-Hold, another Reliever pitches the 3rd inning gets the Save. -
@thegoaler_psn said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
Sometimes in cpu bash games I could have a large lead. I take out my starter after let's say 6. Seems like no matter if it's a big lead, the reliever that pitches 3 or more inning gets a save. Weird.
In Conquest I like to do 'W,H,S' games.
Starter pitches 1 leaves with lead-Win. Reliever 1 inning-Hold, another Reliever pitches the 3rd inning gets the Save.Yes, a reliever pitching who comes in with a lead and pitches 3 or more innings and finishes the game earns a save. This meets the requirements in MLB Rule 9.19 by meeting the requirements in 9.19(a)-(c) and (d)(3).
9.19 Saves for Relief Pitchers
A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 9.19.
The Official Scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:- (a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;
- (b) He is not the winning pitcher;
- (c) He is credited with at least 1⁄3 of an inning pitched; and
- (d) He satisfies one of the following conditions:
** (1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning;
** (2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or
** (3) He pitches for at least three innings.
Now for the OPs original question...To earn a hold, a relief pitcher meets the requirements of (b)-(d) and does not fulfill (a) by not being the finishing pitcher (he was relieved by another pitcher).
For your W-H-S scenario (i.e. Conquest or 3-inning Event games)...SDS changes the rule for earning a win due to not having 4 and 2/3 innings in that game mode, so they made the rule to give the SP a W after 1 IP (if winning of course), then if the first RP comes in and fulfills rule 9.19(b)-(d) -- obviously (d)(3) is not going to happen, so either (d)(1) or (d)(2) must be met -- that pitcher gets the hold, and the final RP gets the save due to fulfilling all four parts of rule 9.19(a)-(d).
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Break it down "For Dummies" style:
For a save start with question 1, for a hold start with question 2:
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Did he finish the game? If yes- move on to question 2, if no- he does not get a save.
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Did he not get the W or the L? If yes- move on to question 3, if no (as in he got the W or L)- he does not get a save or hold.
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Did he get credit with at least 1/3 inning pitched? If yes- move on to question 4, if no - he does not get a save or hold.
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Did he enter the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning? if yes- he gets a save or hold, if no- move to next question
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Did he enter the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces)? If yes- he gets a save or hold, if no- move to next question.
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Did he pitch for at least three innings? if yes- he gets a save or hold, if no- he does not get a save or hold.
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@ericulous1_psn said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
I thought I understood the concept of a Hold but I've noticed that The Show seems to have very specific guidelines that I don't understand.
Example: I'm playing a 9 inning game. My starter goes 6 IP and I bring in a reliever winning 5-0.
The pitcher in the 7th pitches a perfect inning. Still 5-0.
The pitcher in the 8th does the exact same thing. Still 5-0. (Ps I stopped hitting in the 2nd for some reason).
A 3rd reliever gets the final 3 outs.
I win 5-0 and my 7th inning pitcher gets a hold and my 8th inning pitcher does not. Why?
I expect @samguenther1987 , @jogger171717_PSN , @SaveFarris_PSN, @dap1234567890, @QuinnyMcQuinn or @the_dragon1912 to help me out here hahaha.
It has to be a Save Situation...pitcher in the 7th was in a save situation cause he could've gone the last 3 innings and gotten the save. Had he given up 2 Runs...he'd still gotten the Hold. Then you're 8th inning pitcher would have as well.
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@gixxerryder750 said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
@ericulous1_psn said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
I thought I understood the concept of a Hold but I've noticed that The Show seems to have very specific guidelines that I don't understand.
Example: I'm playing a 9 inning game. My starter goes 6 IP and I bring in a reliever winning 5-0.
The pitcher in the 7th pitches a perfect inning. Still 5-0.
The pitcher in the 8th does the exact same thing. Still 5-0. (Ps I stopped hitting in the 2nd for some reason).
A 3rd reliever gets the final 3 outs.
I win 5-0 and my 7th inning pitcher gets a hold and my 8th inning pitcher does not. Why?
I expect @samguenther1987 , @jogger171717_PSN , @SaveFarris_PSN, @dap1234567890, @QuinnyMcQuinn or @the_dragon1912 to help me out here hahaha.
It has to be a Save Situation...pitcher in the 7th was in a save situation cause he could've gone the last 3 innings and gotten the save. Had he given up 2 Runs...he'd still gotten the Hold. Then you're 8th inning pitcher would have as well.
Funny you would bring this up. The last game I played I was leading 7-1 and I hit a guy and gave up a 2 run bomb in 7th and then got the outs. That pitcher got a hold.
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@ericulous1_psn said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
@gixxerryder750 said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
@ericulous1_psn said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
I thought I understood the concept of a Hold but I've noticed that The Show seems to have very specific guidelines that I don't understand.
Example: I'm playing a 9 inning game. My starter goes 6 IP and I bring in a reliever winning 5-0.
The pitcher in the 7th pitches a perfect inning. Still 5-0.
The pitcher in the 8th does the exact same thing. Still 5-0. (Ps I stopped hitting in the 2nd for some reason).
A 3rd reliever gets the final 3 outs.
I win 5-0 and my 7th inning pitcher gets a hold and my 8th inning pitcher does not. Why?
I expect @samguenther1987 , @jogger171717_PSN , @SaveFarris_PSN, @dap1234567890, @QuinnyMcQuinn or @the_dragon1912 to help me out here hahaha.
It has to be a Save Situation...pitcher in the 7th was in a save situation cause he could've gone the last 3 innings and gotten the save. Had he given up 2 Runs...he'd still gotten the Hold. Then you're 8th inning pitcher would have as well.
Funny you would bring this up. The last game I played I was leading 7-1 and I hit a guy and gave up a 2 run bomb in 7th and then got the outs. That pitcher got a hold.
Because you didn't give up the tying run. The hold stat does not mean "holding the team to the same number of runs"!
I know many people think that! -
Oh that brings up a new question. In a 9 inning game, let's say I use an opener and he goes 1 inning, them I bring in another pitcher. How far does he have to go to get the win? Same...through the 5th? Or is the second pitcher on the hook once he takes the ball?
In that case it’s up to the discretion of the official scorer.
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@savefarris_psn said in Question for the stats dudes.....holds:
Oh that brings up a new question. In a 9 inning game, let's say I use an opener and he goes 1 inning, them I bring in another pitcher. How far does he have to go to get the win? Same...through the 5th? Or is the second pitcher on the hook once he takes the ball?
In that case it’s up to the discretion of the official scorer.
Oh that makes sense, because I've seen it go both ways.
Oh man, dare I ask about the check swing rule?
You guys are great. Thanks.
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Update on the hold. There is nothing realistic about how they score this stat. I played a conquest game, scored 12 runs in the first 2 innings and Tom Henke earned a hold. 12-0 and he gets a hold......ok I guess.
I realize this is basically irrelevant, nobody can possibly be as nerdy as I to care about innocuous stats like holds but I do love keeping track hahaha....ok continue scrolling.
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