9th inning boss clue.
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@mrad2010_xbl said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@bob_loblaw1984 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@skarmaen_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
Johnny Bench is the best catcher in MLB history but unfortunately doesn't translate to this game. Or I should say he hasn't in years past. I haven't used his earlier diamond this season so it's possible his swing isn't as bad now.
Regardless I'll be buying his card if it gets to a reasonable price late in the 9th inning, but almost certainly not going to take him at 350k (unless they really put out some stinkers for the other two).
His swing is better this year, but his vs RHP attributes are way too low on that MVP card.
Where did u see his stats?
Last years card was the same.
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@texas10pt_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@the_dragon1912 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
2nd Clue is out. Eric Gagne
Dragon you are dang good at this. Bravo!!!!
lmfao, tf, 500 comments say the same thing
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@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
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@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
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@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
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@jeezy-e_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@thegoaler_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
If it's Foxx, I may as well slit my wrists
Never hit well with him. A little better with the recent TA one, thoughI love Jimmie Foxx but FS Rutschman might be the best catcher card I have ever used, I RAKE with him.
Not sure how he isn’t everyone’s starting catcher. He has a smooth swing that plays on all difficulties. The only thing that can be frustrating with him is the occasional perfect perfect fly out to the track. I can deal with that in exchange for his defense, speed and ability hit liners all over the field
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@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jeezy-e_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@thegoaler_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
If it's Foxx, I may as well slit my wrists
Never hit well with him. A little better with the recent TA one, thoughI love Jimmie Foxx but FS Rutschmian might be the best catcher card I have ever used, I RAKE with him.
Not sure how he isn’t everyone’s starting catcher. He has a smooth swing that plays on all difficulties. The only thing that can be frustrating with him is the occasional perfect perfect fly out to the track. I can deal with that in exchange for his defense, speed and ability hit liners all over the field
It's definitely hard to argue with Rutchman as the best C. I still love ASG Realmuto and have played surprisingly well with Award Molina. I finally got the hang of Piazza's swing and Posada award is a personal favorite. To me, it's between Pudge signature and Adley. I'm excited to throw Bench in the mix.
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@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
I know you’re just messing around, but Posey was statistically the best catcher by far from 2010-2019. There’s really no debate to be had about that.
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@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
I know you’re just messing around, but Posey was statistically the best catcher by far from 2010-2019. There’s really no debate to be had about that.
Statistically in what manner? Maybe offensively but Molina is a superior defender and probably the best pitching staff handler in baseball history. Sorry to point this out but a defensive catcher is far more valuable to a team than an offensive catcher. Now that’s not to say that Posey is a bad defensive catcher he just isn’t on the same level defensively as Molina.
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@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
I know you’re just messing around, but Posey was statistically the best catcher by far from 2010-2019. There’s really no debate to be had about that.
Statistically in what manner? Maybe offensively but Molina is a superior defender and probably the best pitching staff handler in baseball history. Sorry to point this out but a defensive catcher is far more valuable to a team than an offensive catcher. Now that’s not to say that Posey is a bad defensive catcher he just isn’t on the same level defensively as Molina.
Statistically as in 52.9 fWAR for Posey vs 41.8 from Molina. In terms of defense, using Fangraphs’ Def, Posey had 203.4 while Molina had 238.1. Obviously Molina was better defensively, but not by as much as you’d think. In terms of offense, Posey had a 128 wRC+ vs Molina’s 107. Using Fangraphs’ Off, Posey had 142.0 vs Molina’s -1.1. Posey was all-around the much better player, as evidenced by having 11 more fWAR over that period.
Posey actually did have more DRS from 2010-2019 than Molina as well. 112 for Molina vs 121 for Posey. DRS on its own isn’t the best indicator, but it gives a good idea of how they were actually a lot closer than many people realize. Posey was a better framer too, as shown by his 123.5 FRM vs Molina’s 108. Posey’s 72 rSZ was higher than Molina’s 43. Molina’s 18 rCERA and 17 rSB were higher than Posey’s 8 and 11 respectively though.
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@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
I know you’re just messing around, but Posey was statistically the best catcher by far from 2010-2019. There’s really no debate to be had about that.
Statistically in what manner? Maybe offensively but Molina is a superior defender and probably the best pitching staff handler in baseball history. Sorry to point this out but a defensive catcher is far more valuable to a team than an offensive catcher. Now that’s not to say that Posey is a bad defensive catcher he just isn’t on the same level defensively as Molina.
Statistically as in 52.9 fWAR for Posey vs 41.8 from Molina. In terms of defense, using Fangraphs’ Def, Posey had 203.4 while Molina had 238.1. Obviously Molina was better defensively, but not by as much as you’d think. In terms of offense, Posey had a 128 wRC+ vs Molina’s 107. Using Fangraphs’ Off, Posey had 142.0 vs Molina’s -1.1. Posey was all-around the much better player, as evidenced by having 11 more fWAR over that period.
Sorry to point this out but WAR is not a very good metric to base a catcher on. Molina is not asked to provide any sort of offensive production. He is asked to manage a pitching staff and provide great defense. Buster Posey is expected to produce offensively and if his defense is serviceable than it’s a bonus. There are two totally different mindsets from two totally different major league organizations. I admit that posey is a better all around player but nobody in the history of this game has managed a pitching staff better and played gg caliber defense like Molina has done for the period of time he has done it. And Molina has been doing it for a lot longer than Posey has. Also I’m pretty sure Posey has never won a platinum glove and I believe Molina has won 4.
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@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
I know you’re just messing around, but Posey was statistically the best catcher by far from 2010-2019. There’s really no debate to be had about that.
Statistically in what manner? Maybe offensively but Molina is a superior defender and probably the best pitching staff handler in baseball history. Sorry to point this out but a defensive catcher is far more valuable to a team than an offensive catcher. Now that’s not to say that Posey is a bad defensive catcher he just isn’t on the same level defensively as Molina.
Statistically as in 52.9 fWAR for Posey vs 41.8 from Molina. In terms of defense, using Fangraphs’ Def, Posey had 203.4 while Molina had 238.1. Obviously Molina was better defensively, but not by as much as you’d think. In terms of offense, Posey had a 128 wRC+ vs Molina’s 107. Using Fangraphs’ Off, Posey had 142.0 vs Molina’s -1.1. Posey was all-around the much better player, as evidenced by having 11 more fWAR over that period.
Sorry to point this out but WAR is not a very good metric to base a catcher on. Molina is not asked to provide any sort of offensive production. He is asked to manage a pitching staff and provide great defense. Buster Posey is expected to produce offensively and if his defense is serviceable than it’s a bonus. There are two totally different mindsets from two totally different major league organizations. I admit that posey is a better all around player but nobody in the history of this game has managed a pitching staff better and played gg caliber defense like Molina has done for the period of time he has done it. And Molina has been doing it for a lot longer than Posey has. Also I’m pretty sure Posey has never won a platinum glove and I believe Molina has won 4.
It literally doesn’t matter if Molina is expected to hit well or not. The whole point is that Posey actually could hit extremely well consistently and play elite defense at the same time, allowing him to statistically provide more value to his team. WAR (fWAR specifically) works just as well for catchers as any other position. The main fault of WAR for catchers in the earlier days was that it didn’t incorporate framing. Well, fWAR does incorporate framing now, making it perfectly acceptable and just as valid for catchers as any other position. This isn’t a career debate, it’s a debate about 2010-2019. And from 2010-2019, Posey was undeniably statistically the best catcher in baseball.
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@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
I know you’re just messing around, but Posey was statistically the best catcher by far from 2010-2019. There’s really no debate to be had about that.
Statistically in what manner? Maybe offensively but Molina is a superior defender and probably the best pitching staff handler in baseball history. Sorry to point this out but a defensive catcher is far more valuable to a team than an offensive catcher. Now that’s not to say that Posey is a bad defensive catcher he just isn’t on the same level defensively as Molina.
Statistically as in 52.9 fWAR for Posey vs 41.8 from Molina. In terms of defense, using Fangraphs’ Def, Posey had 203.4 while Molina had 238.1. Obviously Molina was better defensively, but not by as much as you’d think. In terms of offense, Posey had a 128 wRC+ vs Molina’s 107. Using Fangraphs’ Off, Posey had 142.0 vs Molina’s -1.1. Posey was all-around the much better player, as evidenced by having 11 more fWAR over that period.
Sorry to point this out but WAR is not a very good metric to base a catcher on. Molina is not asked to provide any sort of offensive production. He is asked to manage a pitching staff and provide great defense. Buster Posey is expected to produce offensively and if his defense is serviceable than it’s a bonus. There are two totally different mindsets from two totally different major league organizations. I admit that posey is a better all around player but nobody in the history of this game has managed a pitching staff better and played gg caliber defense like Molina has done for the period of time he has done it. And Molina has been doing it for a lot longer than Posey has. Also I’m pretty sure Posey has never won a platinum glove and I believe Molina has won 4.
It literally doesn’t matter if Molina is expected to hit well or not. The whole point is that Posey actually could hit extremely well and play elite defense at the same time, allowing him to statistically provide more value to his team. WAR (fWAR specifically) works just as well for catchers as any other position. The main fault of WAR for catchers in the earlier days was that it didn’t incorporate framing. Well, fWAR does incorporate framing now, making it perfectly acceptable and just as valid for catchers as any other position. This isn’t a career debate, it’s a debate about 2010-2019. And from 2010-2019, Posey was undeniably statistically the best catcher in baseball.
All you’re going to do is argue for the sake of arguing so I’m not going to indulge you. You win? Keep this in mind, Posey is not a HOF lock where Molina is. All the advanced metrics can’t take into account what a certain person actually means to the team and ultimately the organization. Or what that one person has meant to the game in general. So please keep spouting the statical diarrhea I’m not biting anymore. Have a good night bud.
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@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
And.. I am not saying he doesn’t deserve a program. I was just pointing out that his card could come out some other way, for example: the collection reward. However, I am not sure where the hostility is warranted.
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@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
I know you’re just messing around, but Posey was statistically the best catcher by far from 2010-2019. There’s really no debate to be had about that.
Statistically in what manner? Maybe offensively but Molina is a superior defender and probably the best pitching staff handler in baseball history. Sorry to point this out but a defensive catcher is far more valuable to a team than an offensive catcher. Now that’s not to say that Posey is a bad defensive catcher he just isn’t on the same level defensively as Molina.
Statistically as in 52.9 fWAR for Posey vs 41.8 from Molina. In terms of defense, using Fangraphs’ Def, Posey had 203.4 while Molina had 238.1. Obviously Molina was better defensively, but not by as much as you’d think. In terms of offense, Posey had a 128 wRC+ vs Molina’s 107. Using Fangraphs’ Off, Posey had 142.0 vs Molina’s -1.1. Posey was all-around the much better player, as evidenced by having 11 more fWAR over that period.
Sorry to point this out but WAR is not a very good metric to base a catcher on. Molina is not asked to provide any sort of offensive production. He is asked to manage a pitching staff and provide great defense. Buster Posey is expected to produce offensively and if his defense is serviceable than it’s a bonus. There are two totally different mindsets from two totally different major league organizations. I admit that posey is a better all around player but nobody in the history of this game has managed a pitching staff better and played gg caliber defense like Molina has done for the period of time he has done it. And Molina has been doing it for a lot longer than Posey has. Also I’m pretty sure Posey has never won a platinum glove and I believe Molina has won 4.
It literally doesn’t matter if Molina is expected to hit well or not. The whole point is that Posey actually could hit extremely well and play elite defense at the same time, allowing him to statistically provide more value to his team. WAR (fWAR specifically) works just as well for catchers as any other position. The main fault of WAR for catchers in the earlier days was that it didn’t incorporate framing. Well, fWAR does incorporate framing now, making it perfectly acceptable and just as valid for catchers as any other position. This isn’t a career debate, it’s a debate about 2010-2019. And from 2010-2019, Posey was undeniably statistically the best catcher in baseball.
All you’re going to do is argue for the sake of arguing so I’m not going to indulge you. You win? Keep this in mind, Posey is not a HOF lock where Molina is. All the advanced metrics can’t take into account what a certain person actually means to the team and ultimately the organization. Or what that one person has meant to the game in general. So please keep spouting the statical diarrhea I’m not biting anymore. Have a good night bud.
“These advanced statistics don’t agree with my preconceived notion of a player, therefore they’re wrong and don’t really matter.”
Posey is 100% guaranteed to be a hall of famer, and of course Molina will get in too. Advanced metrics are being used more and more every year. When Posey is on the ballot in 5 years, he’ll have an unbelievable amount of statistical support. I mean, even MLB itself just proposed using fWAR as the basis for determining arbitration salaries.
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@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
And.. I am not saying he doesn’t deserve a program. I was just pointing out that his card could come out some other way, for example: the collection reward. However, I am not sure where the hostility is warranted.
I didn’t mean for it to sound hostile, sorry. My point was just that it would be the exact same structure as the Cabrera and scherzer programs, so it would make perfect sense to do one to celebrate his career.
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@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
I know you’re just messing around, but Posey was statistically the best catcher by far from 2010-2019. There’s really no debate to be had about that.
Statistically in what manner? Maybe offensively but Molina is a superior defender and probably the best pitching staff handler in baseball history. Sorry to point this out but a defensive catcher is far more valuable to a team than an offensive catcher. Now that’s not to say that Posey is a bad defensive catcher he just isn’t on the same level defensively as Molina.
Statistically as in 52.9 fWAR for Posey vs 41.8 from Molina. In terms of defense, using Fangraphs’ Def, Posey had 203.4 while Molina had 238.1. Obviously Molina was better defensively, but not by as much as you’d think. In terms of offense, Posey had a 128 wRC+ vs Molina’s 107. Using Fangraphs’ Off, Posey had 142.0 vs Molina’s -1.1. Posey was all-around the much better player, as evidenced by having 11 more fWAR over that period.
Sorry to point this out but WAR is not a very good metric to base a catcher on. Molina is not asked to provide any sort of offensive production. He is asked to manage a pitching staff and provide great defense. Buster Posey is expected to produce offensively and if his defense is serviceable than it’s a bonus. There are two totally different mindsets from two totally different major league organizations. I admit that posey is a better all around player but nobody in the history of this game has managed a pitching staff better and played gg caliber defense like Molina has done for the period of time he has done it. And Molina has been doing it for a lot longer than Posey has. Also I’m pretty sure Posey has never won a platinum glove and I believe Molina has won 4.
It literally doesn’t matter if Molina is expected to hit well or not. The whole point is that Posey actually could hit extremely well and play elite defense at the same time, allowing him to statistically provide more value to his team. WAR (fWAR specifically) works just as well for catchers as any other position. The main fault of WAR for catchers in the earlier days was that it didn’t incorporate framing. Well, fWAR does incorporate framing now, making it perfectly acceptable and just as valid for catchers as any other position. This isn’t a career debate, it’s a debate about 2010-2019. And from 2010-2019, Posey was undeniably statistically the best catcher in baseball.
All you’re going to do is argue for the sake of arguing so I’m not going to indulge you. You win? Keep this in mind, Posey is not a HOF lock where Molina is. All the advanced metrics can’t take into account what a certain person actually means to the team and ultimately the organization. Or what that one person has meant to the game in general. So please keep spouting the statical diarrhea I’m not biting anymore. Have a good night bud.
“These advanced statistics don’t agree with my preconceived notion of a player, therefore they’re wrong and don’t really matter.”
Posey is 100% guaranteed to be a hall of famer, and of course Molina will get in too. Advanced metrics are being used more and more every year. When Posey is on the ballot in 5 years, he’ll have an unbelievable amount of statistical support. I mean, even MLB itself just proposed using fWAR as the basis for determining arbitration salaries.
Not biting, go argue with someone else
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@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
I know you’re just messing around, but Posey was statistically the best catcher by far from 2010-2019. There’s really no debate to be had about that.
Statistically in what manner? Maybe offensively but Molina is a superior defender and probably the best pitching staff handler in baseball history. Sorry to point this out but a defensive catcher is far more valuable to a team than an offensive catcher. Now that’s not to say that Posey is a bad defensive catcher he just isn’t on the same level defensively as Molina.
Statistically as in 52.9 fWAR for Posey vs 41.8 from Molina. In terms of defense, using Fangraphs’ Def, Posey had 203.4 while Molina had 238.1. Obviously Molina was better defensively, but not by as much as you’d think. In terms of offense, Posey had a 128 wRC+ vs Molina’s 107. Using Fangraphs’ Off, Posey had 142.0 vs Molina’s -1.1. Posey was all-around the much better player, as evidenced by having 11 more fWAR over that period.
Sorry to point this out but WAR is not a very good metric to base a catcher on. Molina is not asked to provide any sort of offensive production. He is asked to manage a pitching staff and provide great defense. Buster Posey is expected to produce offensively and if his defense is serviceable than it’s a bonus. There are two totally different mindsets from two totally different major league organizations. I admit that posey is a better all around player but nobody in the history of this game has managed a pitching staff better and played gg caliber defense like Molina has done for the period of time he has done it. And Molina has been doing it for a lot longer than Posey has. Also I’m pretty sure Posey has never won a platinum glove and I believe Molina has won 4.
It literally doesn’t matter if Molina is expected to hit well or not. The whole point is that Posey actually could hit extremely well and play elite defense at the same time, allowing him to statistically provide more value to his team. WAR (fWAR specifically) works just as well for catchers as any other position. The main fault of WAR for catchers in the earlier days was that it didn’t incorporate framing. Well, fWAR does incorporate framing now, making it perfectly acceptable and just as valid for catchers as any other position. This isn’t a career debate, it’s a debate about 2010-2019. And from 2010-2019, Posey was undeniably statistically the best catcher in baseball.
All you’re going to do is argue for the sake of arguing so I’m not going to indulge you. You win? Keep this in mind, Posey is not a HOF lock where Molina is. All the advanced metrics can’t take into account what a certain person actually means to the team and ultimately the organization. Or what that one person has meant to the game in general. So please keep spouting the statical diarrhea I’m not biting anymore. Have a good night bud.
“These advanced statistics don’t agree with my preconceived notion of a player, therefore they’re wrong and don’t really matter.”
Posey is 100% guaranteed to be a hall of famer, and of course Molina will get in too. Advanced metrics are being used more and more every year. When Posey is on the ballot in 5 years, he’ll have an unbelievable amount of statistical support. I mean, even MLB itself just proposed using fWAR as the basis for determining arbitration salaries.
Not biting, go argue with someone else
I rest my case
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@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
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@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
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@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
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It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
I know you’re just messing around, but Posey was statistically the best catcher by far from 2010-2019. There’s really no debate to be had about that.
Statistically in what manner? Maybe offensively but Molina is a superior defender and probably the best pitching staff handler in baseball history. Sorry to point this out but a defensive catcher is far more valuable to a team than an offensive catcher. Now that’s not to say that Posey is a bad defensive catcher he just isn’t on the same level defensively as Molina.
Statistically as in 52.9 fWAR for Posey vs 41.8 from Molina. In terms of defense, using Fangraphs’ Def, Posey had 203.4 while Molina had 238.1. Obviously Molina was better defensively, but not by as much as you’d think. In terms of offense, Posey had a 128 wRC+ vs Molina’s 107. Using Fangraphs’ Off, Posey had 142.0 vs Molina’s -1.1. Posey was all-around the much better player, as evidenced by having 11 more fWAR over that period.
Sorry to point this out but WAR is not a very good metric to base a catcher on. Molina is not asked to provide any sort of offensive production. He is asked to manage a pitching staff and provide great defense. Buster Posey is expected to produce offensively and if his defense is serviceable than it’s a bonus. There are two totally different mindsets from two totally different major league organizations. I admit that posey is a better all around player but nobody in the history of this game has managed a pitching staff better and played gg caliber defense like Molina has done for the period of time he has done it. And Molina has been doing it for a lot longer than Posey has. Also I’m pretty sure Posey has never won a platinum glove and I believe Molina has won 4.
It literally doesn’t matter if Molina is expected to hit well or not. The whole point is that Posey actually could hit extremely well and play elite defense at the same time, allowing him to statistically provide more value to his team. WAR (fWAR specifically) works just as well for catchers as any other position. The main fault of WAR for catchers in the earlier days was that it didn’t incorporate framing. Well, fWAR does incorporate framing now, making it perfectly acceptable and just as valid for catchers as any other position. This isn’t a career debate, it’s a debate about 2010-2019. And from 2010-2019, Posey was undeniably statistically the best catcher in baseball.
All you’re going to do is argue for the sake of arguing so I’m not going to indulge you. You win? Keep this in mind, Posey is not a HOF lock where Molina is. All the advanced metrics can’t take into account what a certain person actually means to the team and ultimately the organization. Or what that one person has meant to the game in general. So please keep spouting the statical diarrhea I’m not biting anymore. Have a good night bud.
“These advanced statistics don’t agree with my preconceived notion of a player, therefore they’re wrong and don’t really matter.”
Posey is 100% guaranteed to be a hall of famer, and of course Molina will get in too. Advanced metrics are being used more and more every year. When Posey is on the ballot in 5 years, he’ll have an unbelievable amount of statistical support. I mean, even MLB itself just proposed using fWAR as the basis for determining arbitration salaries.
Not biting, go argue with someone else
Look what I started. I won't argue with Posey v. Molina on offense. I realize Gold Gloves are not a statistical measurement but they usually get it right as is evidenced by Stallings having the best year and winning this year and Molina though great, hasn't won for a few years because he is not THE BEST defensively by statistical measurements anymore.
But 9 Gold Gloves (2nd all time in NL, 3rd all time in MLB) to 1.
If we are taking the prototype of a player and saying, without injury or early retirement, this is how they would perform....great. But that's not reality. Posey played 12 years, and really only like 9 since he missed two full seasons and a chunk of a few others. I get that that bodes well for him in a per year way but I'll take the guy who controlled my pitching staff averaging 120 games a year over an 18 year period, 19 next year and did it with possibly the most elite glove in that positions history.
I will agree, Posey was better in his decade, but Yadi has been beating up his body for 2 decades and over 2,100 games and still is a decent hitter and an elite defender.
I wish Posey wouldn't retire, though I hardly begrudge him that. It will certainly be interesting in 5 years (6 for Molina) to see who gets the higher HOF vote percentage. Let's meet back here at that time hahaha.
I will say, you argue well and will always supercede me with new age statistics. I'm old-ish (39) and still use the eye test and baseball card stats.
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@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
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@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@killerpresence4 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@ericulous1_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@brainfreeze442 said in 9th inning boss clue.:
@jogger171717_psn said in 9th inning boss clue.:
It’s Bench.
Posey is going to get his own program just like Cabrera and Scherzer.
Cabrera and Scherzer got programs because they hit a milestone this season.
And? They were both career retrospective programs, exactly like what Posey’s would be. The milestone is just retirement instead. The best catcher over the last decade retiring should 100% warrant a similar program.
But Molina already got his program.
Cue: rehash of the Posey v. Molina debate.
I know you’re just messing around, but Posey was statistically the best catcher by far from 2010-2019. There’s really no debate to be had about that.
Statistically in what manner? Maybe offensively but Molina is a superior defender and probably the best pitching staff handler in baseball history. Sorry to point this out but a defensive catcher is far more valuable to a team than an offensive catcher. Now that’s not to say that Posey is a bad defensive catcher he just isn’t on the same level defensively as Molina.
Statistically as in 52.9 fWAR for Posey vs 41.8 from Molina. In terms of defense, using Fangraphs’ Def, Posey had 203.4 while Molina had 238.1. Obviously Molina was better defensively, but not by as much as you’d think. In terms of offense, Posey had a 128 wRC+ vs Molina’s 107. Using Fangraphs’ Off, Posey had 142.0 vs Molina’s -1.1. Posey was all-around the much better player, as evidenced by having 11 more fWAR over that period.
Sorry to point this out but WAR is not a very good metric to base a catcher on. Molina is not asked to provide any sort of offensive production. He is asked to manage a pitching staff and provide great defense. Buster Posey is expected to produce offensively and if his defense is serviceable than it’s a bonus. There are two totally different mindsets from two totally different major league organizations. I admit that posey is a better all around player but nobody in the history of this game has managed a pitching staff better and played gg caliber defense like Molina has done for the period of time he has done it. And Molina has been doing it for a lot longer than Posey has. Also I’m pretty sure Posey has never won a platinum glove and I believe Molina has won 4.
It literally doesn’t matter if Molina is expected to hit well or not. The whole point is that Posey actually could hit extremely well and play elite defense at the same time, allowing him to statistically provide more value to his team. WAR (fWAR specifically) works just as well for catchers as any other position. The main fault of WAR for catchers in the earlier days was that it didn’t incorporate framing. Well, fWAR does incorporate framing now, making it perfectly acceptable and just as valid for catchers as any other position. This isn’t a career debate, it’s a debate about 2010-2019. And from 2010-2019, Posey was undeniably statistically the best catcher in baseball.
All you’re going to do is argue for the sake of arguing so I’m not going to indulge you. You win? Keep this in mind, Posey is not a HOF lock where Molina is. All the advanced metrics can’t take into account what a certain person actually means to the team and ultimately the organization. Or what that one person has meant to the game in general. So please keep spouting the statical diarrhea I’m not biting anymore. Have a good night bud.
“These advanced statistics don’t agree with my preconceived notion of a player, therefore they’re wrong and don’t really matter.”
Posey is 100% guaranteed to be a hall of famer, and of course Molina will get in too. Advanced metrics are being used more and more every year. When Posey is on the ballot in 5 years, he’ll have an unbelievable amount of statistical support. I mean, even MLB itself just proposed using fWAR as the basis for determining arbitration salaries.
Not biting, go argue with someone else
Look what I started. I won't argue with Posey v. Molina on offense. I realize Gold Gloves are not a statistical measurement but they usually get it right as is evidenced by Stallings having the best year and winning this year and Molina though great, hasn't won for a few years because he is not THE BEST defensively by statistical measurements anymore.
But 9 Gold Gloves (2nd all time in NL, 3rd all time in MLB) to 1.
If we are taking the prototype of a player and saying, without injury or early retirement, this is how they would perform....great. But that's not reality. Posey played 12 years, and really only like 9 since he missed two full seasons and a chunk of a few others. I get that that bodes well for him in a per year way but I'll take the guy who controlled my pitching staff averaging 120 games a year over an 18 year period, 19 next year and did it with possibly the most elite glove in that positions history.
I will agree, Posey was better in his decade, but Yadi has been beating up his body for 2 decades and over 2,100 games and still is a decent hitter and an elite defender.
I wish Posey wouldn't retire, though I hardly begrudge him that. It will certainly be interesting in 5 years (6 for Molina) to see who gets the higher HOF vote percentage. Let's meet back here at that time hahaha.
I will say, you argue well and will always supercede me with new age statistics. I'm old-ish (39) and still use the eye test and baseball card stats.
I believe you were replying to the other guy not me. I agree with you that Molina is the bar by which all other catchers are measured by. Not taking anything from Posey, but length of career is still an important measure and one that should be looked at when it comes to HOF enshrinement. The only person to have a 10 year career or shorter and still make the HOF is Sandy Koufax. And he made it because of his sheer dominance in those 10 years. Posey hasn’t been dominate for the last 3 years. Actually been pretty ineffective for that period of time then had this resurgence year. That stuff will be scrutinized when it comes to the HOF.
