Double plays and other game physics
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I've always approached this game as I would real baseball. Assuming the physics would be in line.
But, it seems way to often it just doesn't matter and that's when immersive goes away and gives way to frustration and jadedness.
Many instances of the disregard for normal real-life baseball physics. I'm just going to talk double play that seems to be the go-to for the AI to quickly manufacture a predetermined outcome.
In baseball the majority of double-plays are induced by ground ball pitchers that generally keep the ball low in the strike zone. Generally they throw sinkers and splitters that, due to the law of physics, will lead to low trajectories that lead to double-plays.
So, trying to use the physics of baseball as my guide I'll almost always leave the low balls alone when I have a runner on first with less than 2 outs. 90% of the time I will swing only at balls near the top of the strike zone. Doesn't matter. Those pitches I connect on, regardless of whether they are sinkers or curve balls, will be ground balls. Doesn't appear to be any consideration in the game's physics feedback in these situations.
Couldn't the developers just code in some heavily weighted algorithm that mostly prevents double plays when you make contact on a high pitch? If the AI really needs to produce an "out-outcome" for the batter just have that high pitch be animated as a pop-up, or line-drive and double the over aggressive runner off first.
I have no answers, but don't ignore physics to generate outcomes.
The more real-life physics are ignored in this game the cheaper the experience for the players that actually understand the physics of baseball.
The more strategies a knowledgeable player can attempt to utilize that reflect real-life physics that are actually reflected in the resulting animation..leads to a more immersive gaming experience.
Those that are ignored..just leads to frustration and "who gives a frick" approach to the game.
Casual players won't have a clue, and if that's primarily who the game is marketed for..so be it.
Go ahead and Insult the intelligence of the minority that do know the difference. Create crusaders against the oppressive and artificial environment this game often depicts. Crusaders that feel they have no recourse but to post in these here forums hoping that the next version may be a more immersive experience.
Ha, just bored today and belching some thoughts that, albeit are sincere, probably won't make the slightest bit of difference. Sometimes more fun writing about the game than playing it though.
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Yep and flip it the other way vs. the AI. They have a runner on 1st. Good luck pitching in any way shape or form to influence a ground ball and possible double play.
I have written it here elsewhere but if, since the game came out, the AI has turned 1592 double plays against me I have 23 turned against them.
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@worldrevolver said in Double plays and other game physics:
Yep and flip it the other way vs. the AI. They have a runner on 1st. Good luck pitching in any way shape or form to influence a ground ball and possible double play.
I have written it here elsewhere but if, since the game came out, the AI has turned 1592 double plays against me I have 23 turned against them.
Agreed.
We all know the game is based on AI predetermined outcomes. But, people can forgive that to a certain degree if the outcome (out or HR) at least somewhat fits into how we know baseball physics actually work.
Take intelligent strategy out of the game, that works consistently, and you're left with arcade baseball.
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My reply to this didn't post for some reason and I don't want to re-type it all, but yes, this happens to me all the time. No matter where the ball is thrown in the zone, if I swing, automatic double play. No matter the fielders rating, arm strength or accuracy, perfect throws from anywhere in the infield and two outs. Drives me so insane that I just belly laugh at how bad the game is.
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@ironeyes_cody_psn said in Double plays and other game physics:
I've always approached this game as I would real baseball. Assuming the physics would be in line.
But, it seems way to often it just doesn't matter and that's when immersive goes away and gives way to frustration and jadedness.
Many instances of the disregard for normal real-life baseball physics. I'm just going to talk double play that seems to be the go-to for the AI to quickly manufacture a predetermined outcome.
In baseball the majority of double-plays are induced by ground ball pitchers that generally keep the ball low in the strike zone. Generally they throw sinkers and splitters that, due to the law of physics, will lead to low trajectories that lead to double-plays.
So, trying to use the physics of baseball as my guide I'll almost always leave the low balls alone when I have a runner on first with less than 2 outs. 90% of the time I will swing only at balls near the top of the strike zone. Doesn't matter. Those pitches I connect on, regardless of whether they are sinkers or curve balls, will be ground balls. Doesn't appear to be any consideration in the game's physics feedback in these situations.
Couldn't the developers just code in some heavily weighted algorithm that mostly prevents double plays when you make contact on a high pitch? If the AI really needs to produce an "out-outcome" for the batter just have that high pitch be animated as a pop-up, or line-drive and double the over aggressive runner off first.
I have no answers, but don't ignore physics to generate outcomes.
The more real-life physics are ignored in this game the cheaper the experience for the players that actually understand the physics of baseball.
The more strategies a knowledgeable player can attempt to utilize that reflect real-life physics that are actually reflected in the resulting animation..leads to a more immersive gaming experience.
Those that are ignored..just leads to frustration and "who gives a frick" approach to the game.
Casual players won't have a clue, and if that's primarily who the game is marketed for..so be it.
Go ahead and Insult the intelligence of the minority that do know the difference. Create crusaders against the oppressive and artificial environment this game often depicts. Crusaders that feel they have no recourse but to post in these here forums hoping that the next version may be a more immersive experience.
Ha, just bored today and belching some thoughts that, albeit are sincere, probably won't make the slightest bit of difference. Sometimes more fun writing about the game than playing it though.
I get frustrated by how well the AI gets the lead runner going to second base when no real player would ever make that throw and no real player would turn the next throw fast enough anyways AND they're bronze fielders. I get frustrated too lol
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@thongypu_psn said in Double plays and other game physics:
@ironeyes_cody_psn said in Double plays and other game physics:
I've always approached this game as I would real baseball. Assuming the physics would be in line.
But, it seems way to often it just doesn't matter and that's when immersive goes away and gives way to frustration and jadedness.
Many instances of the disregard for normal real-life baseball physics. I'm just going to talk double play that seems to be the go-to for the AI to quickly manufacture a predetermined outcome.
In baseball the majority of double-plays are induced by ground ball pitchers that generally keep the ball low in the strike zone. Generally they throw sinkers and splitters that, due to the law of physics, will lead to low trajectories that lead to double-plays.
So, trying to use the physics of baseball as my guide I'll almost always leave the low balls alone when I have a runner on first with less than 2 outs. 90% of the time I will swing only at balls near the top of the strike zone. Doesn't matter. Those pitches I connect on, regardless of whether they are sinkers or curve balls, will be ground balls. Doesn't appear to be any consideration in the game's physics feedback in these situations.
Couldn't the developers just code in some heavily weighted algorithm that mostly prevents double plays when you make contact on a high pitch? If the AI really needs to produce an "out-outcome" for the batter just have that high pitch be animated as a pop-up, or line-drive and double the over aggressive runner off first.
I have no answers, but don't ignore physics to generate outcomes.
The more real-life physics are ignored in this game the cheaper the experience for the players that actually understand the physics of baseball.
The more strategies a knowledgeable player can attempt to utilize that reflect real-life physics that are actually reflected in the resulting animation..leads to a more immersive gaming experience.
Those that are ignored..just leads to frustration and "who gives a frick" approach to the game.
Casual players won't have a clue, and if that's primarily who the game is marketed for..so be it.
Go ahead and Insult the intelligence of the minority that do know the difference. Create crusaders against the oppressive and artificial environment this game often depicts. Crusaders that feel they have no recourse but to post in these here forums hoping that the next version may be a more immersive experience.
Ha, just bored today and belching some thoughts that, albeit are sincere, probably won't make the slightest bit of difference. Sometimes more fun writing about the game than playing it though.
I get frustrated by how well the AI gets the lead runner going to second base when no real player would ever make that throw and no real player would turn the next throw fast enough anyways AND they're bronze fielders. I get frustrated too lol
If you really want to get down into the nuances of the physics..and this isn't overly obsessive behavior..more curiosity. When you hit a ball deep in the hole and a fast batter is running down the line. Watch closely the batter coming out of the box, start counting, watch the SS or 2B pick up the ball and fling it to first, sometimes the timing makes sense..sometimes it just looks like the base runner encountered a bog about half way down the line.
One of the worst is the plays where your base runner jumps a little on a deep fly ball. You know when you bumped to take off..1 second later you see the OF actually catch the ball. Instantly you hit the bump to return to base.
I don't care how fast your runner is, when the AI is really needing this out to impose a low-scoring game (or just whatever goes on in the code) you might be thrown out by 6 strides. Just no consistency.
Frustrating for everyone..and you would think those issues would be easy to fix.95/99 speed-base-stealing guys that get big jumps and are thrown out trying to swipe second on curve balls.
It just takes the strategy out of the game. An important part of any so-called simulation, I would think, would be to make sure the little things..like physics..are consistent.
If you can't depend on strategy (having your head in the game) to perhaps give you an edge..it's arcade. Prob already said that, but it's worth repeating.
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Also how about the insanely accurate throws to first on the rare instance your player is sliding into 2nd while the AI player is coming across the bag or moving away from it after the assist. Your player crashing in has no effect on the throw.
I suppose since the whole thing is just an animation we are watching play out the coding just carefully orchestrates the frames so the AI are never bothered by the slide. It just looks goofy every time I see it play out.
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@ironeyes_cody_psn said in Double plays and other game physics:
@thongypu_psn said in Double plays and other game physics:
@ironeyes_cody_psn said in Double plays and other game physics:
I've always approached this game as I would real baseball. Assuming the physics would be in line.
But, it seems way to often it just doesn't matter and that's when immersive goes away and gives way to frustration and jadedness.
Many instances of the disregard for normal real-life baseball physics. I'm just going to talk double play that seems to be the go-to for the AI to quickly manufacture a predetermined outcome.
In baseball the majority of double-plays are induced by ground ball pitchers that generally keep the ball low in the strike zone. Generally they throw sinkers and splitters that, due to the law of physics, will lead to low trajectories that lead to double-plays.
So, trying to use the physics of baseball as my guide I'll almost always leave the low balls alone when I have a runner on first with less than 2 outs. 90% of the time I will swing only at balls near the top of the strike zone. Doesn't matter. Those pitches I connect on, regardless of whether they are sinkers or curve balls, will be ground balls. Doesn't appear to be any consideration in the game's physics feedback in these situations.
Couldn't the developers just code in some heavily weighted algorithm that mostly prevents double plays when you make contact on a high pitch? If the AI really needs to produce an "out-outcome" for the batter just have that high pitch be animated as a pop-up, or line-drive and double the over aggressive runner off first.
I have no answers, but don't ignore physics to generate outcomes.
The more real-life physics are ignored in this game the cheaper the experience for the players that actually understand the physics of baseball.
The more strategies a knowledgeable player can attempt to utilize that reflect real-life physics that are actually reflected in the resulting animation..leads to a more immersive gaming experience.
Those that are ignored..just leads to frustration and "who gives a frick" approach to the game.
Casual players won't have a clue, and if that's primarily who the game is marketed for..so be it.
Go ahead and Insult the intelligence of the minority that do know the difference. Create crusaders against the oppressive and artificial environment this game often depicts. Crusaders that feel they have no recourse but to post in these here forums hoping that the next version may be a more immersive experience.
Ha, just bored today and belching some thoughts that, albeit are sincere, probably won't make the slightest bit of difference. Sometimes more fun writing about the game than playing it though.
I get frustrated by how well the AI gets the lead runner going to second base when no real player would ever make that throw and no real player would turn the next throw fast enough anyways AND they're bronze fielders. I get frustrated too lol
If you really want to get down into the nuances of the physics..and this isn't overly obsessive behavior..more curiosity. When you hit a ball deep in the hole and a fast batter is running down the line. Watch closely the batter coming out of the box, start counting, watch the SS or 2B pick up the ball and fling it to first, sometimes the timing makes sense..sometimes it just looks like the base runner encountered a bog about half way down the line.
One of the worst is the plays where your base runner jumps a little on a deep fly ball. You know when you bumped to take off..1 second later you see the OF actually catch the ball. Instantly you hit the bump to return to base.
I don't care how fast your runner is, when the AI is really needing this out to impose a low-scoring game (or just whatever goes on in the code) you might be thrown out by 6 strides. Just no consistency.
Frustrating for everyone..and you would think those issues would be easy to fix.95/99 speed-base-stealing guys that get big jumps and are thrown out trying to swipe second on curve balls.
It just takes the strategy out of the game. An important part of any so-called simulation, I would think, would be to make sure the little things..like physics..are consistent.
If you can't depend on strategy (having your head in the game) to perhaps give you an edge..it's arcade. Prob already said that, but it's worth repeating.
I was playing a conquest game, hit a grounder into short SS and the CPU was playing back. Fielder was bronze or silver, a 60-70 arm strength and accuracy. He grabbed the ball and threw out my parallel 5 Tatis w/ 99 speed with a freaking LAZER BEAM to first base. Beat me by a step, yet I can beat that same play out with a 70 speed runner at times.
That just proves how ultra flawed this game is. I know there's a lot to coding to make this game play how it plays and it can't be perfect, but the CPU fielding is a freaking joke in this game.
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DP's with a runner on first are like death and taxes...guaranteed.
I hit a chopper to second playing last night...on rookie mind you...the runner has to jump over the ball as he was directly in front of the 2b so there's no way that the fielder could see the ball. 2b charges the ball and as the runner jumps he fields it as clean as can be and make the through for the DP. There's physically no way any player could see the ball or know how it would bounce and field it cleanly...bobble maybe.
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SDS laziness continually called out in the forums. Nothing's really broken per se, but so many things are starting to be emboldened. Overall gameplay needs an overhaul. These automatic plays, player animations, etc. need to get better now that we're in the next-gen console era.
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@darthvaderlight3_psn said in Double plays and other game physics:
SDS laziness continually called out in the forums. Nothing's really broken per se, but so many things are starting to be emboldened. Overall gameplay needs an overhaul. These automatic plays, player animations, etc. need to get better now that we're in the next-gen console era.
The call for a completely new engine might be in order. NextGen with a concentration on getting the physics of the game consistent.
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I made a similar post with 10 examples of how the game simulates difficulty cheaply.
I also mentioned how it insults our Baseball IQ.
I don't remember any of these shenanigans in MVP or Triple Play Baseball, but catch up A.I. and rubberbanding in racing games exist.
This is why we desperately need a competing Baseball game.
EA is gutless and only cares about Maddens, but could make a competent Baseball game. -
@thegoaler_psn said in Double plays and other game physics:
I made a similar post with 10 examples of how the game simulates difficulty cheaply.
I also mentioned how it insults our Baseball IQ.
I don't remember any of these shenanigans in MVP or Triple Play Baseball, but catch up A.I. and rubberbanding in racing games exist.
This is why we desperately need a competing Baseball game.
EA is gutless and only cares about Maddens, but could make a competent Baseball game.I think some of these companies have near monopolies. Trying to get a foothold into the console gaming world of pro Sports is like trying to compete with Facebook by offering a new social media option.
So many barriers to entry...why EA hasn't had any legitimate competition in decades. It's a mini-monopoly.
I will say, though, that Konami's PES does take a lot of FIFA's offline market away. Hands down the offline play in PES is better than FIFA.
But they don't even begin to touch FUT...and that's where these companies put all their focus and money...online where loot-boxes can double and triple the original game sale.
Wish it would happen. Nothing better than the magic of free market competition to force the lazy to get busy and creative. Really listen to their customers for a change. Not just the low hanging fruit that's easy to fix. Or new gimmicks that produce a bigger smokescreen.
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@thegoaler_psn said in Double plays and other game physics:
I made a similar post with 10 examples of how the game simulates difficulty cheaply.
I also mentioned how it insults our Baseball IQ.
I don't remember any of these shenanigans in MVP or Triple Play Baseball, but catch up A.I. and rubberbanding in racing games exist.
This is why we desperately need a competing Baseball game.
EA is gutless and only cares about Maddens, but could make a competent Baseball game.There was 1 Super Tecmo Bowl game every once in a while where the CPU would go God Mode. That is my first memory of sports games having a type of DDA or slider adjustment.
Edit: also regarding your last paragraph, I believe FIFA outsells Madden for EA.
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@poksey_mlbts said in Double plays and other game physics:
@thegoaler_psn said in Double plays and other game physics:
I made a similar post with 10 examples of how the game simulates difficulty cheaply.
I also mentioned how it insults our Baseball IQ.
I don't remember any of these shenanigans in MVP or Triple Play Baseball, but catch up A.I. and rubberbanding in racing games exist.
This is why we desperately need a competing Baseball game.
EA is gutless and only cares about Maddens, but could make a competent Baseball game.There was 1 Super Tecmo Bowl game every once in a while where the CPU would go God Mode. That is my first memory of sports games having a type of DDA or slider adjustment.
Edit: also regarding your last paragraph, I believe FIFA outsells Madden for EA.
FIFA is international. I'm sure it outsells Madden.
Not saying Madden isn't sold world-wide, but in Europe/South America/etc. they love their FUT.
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