Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research)
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Tell you one thing, when I throw a common on the hill, yeah its not harder to hit perfect on pinpoint but his PAR is ginormous. I wouldn’t count that as painting when the PAR is the size of half the strike zone
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@wdk19_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
@hikes83_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
I get that, all I’m saying is Vaughn has a FB primary, it’s unrealistic that it’ll be 0 control.
Maybe there’s more to it that just pitch control. I care to wager that the pitch alignment repertoire also has a effect.
For example a pitcher with 4FB primary versus a pitcher with 4FB as his third pitch will have a smaller PAR even though their individual pitch attributes are the same
I know for a fact that your last paragraph is correct in that pitch order changes PAR size - superseding pitch control in the process. I just don’t agree with it.
And yeah lol it’s obviously not a realistic comparison. I also made the assumption that Vaughn and Maddux had the same BB/9 which would clearly not be true. Just a hypothetical to serve my complaint. But if anyone has 0 control on a FB, I think it would be the Wild Thing!
What’s Maddux’s R1 pitch? CB? So if you or I picked up a baseball today and made CB our “primary pitch”, we would have a smaller PAR with it than Greg Freaking Maddux by yours and SDS’s logic - regardless of pitch control. Again I’m making the incorrect assumption that us and Maddux have the same BB/9, but that is beside the point.
The part I don’t know is what pitch control actually does. I couldn’t find a visible effect of it. That’s what I’m hoping @Collin_SDS_PSN will clarify for us.
It could simply be that the control is supposed to have an impact but it doesn't because of a bug. I know, I know, a bug in The Show 21? Surely not!
Gotta say I really appreciate the effort you went to in testing this out with the scientific method. It was a refreshing break from all of the other 'testing' that we read about here
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Just to respond to some of the comments above mentioning the size of the PAR changing for various reasons, confirming that I hit perfect on the meter twice but the curveballs didn't hit the PAR region at all. Not even close, so it's not even a case of getting the outside millimetre of the PAR. However, I have no idea what pitch confidence was at the time, but it just seemed remarkable to me that I could nail the input and not get close to the target. At least both were strikes, which is what I was trying to throw.
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@cbpm72_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
Just to respond to some of the comments above mentioning the size of the PAR changing for various reasons, confirming that I hit perfect on the meter twice but the curveballs didn't hit the PAR region at all. Not even close, so it's not even a case of getting the outside millimetre of the PAR. However, I have no idea what pitch confidence was at the time, but it just seemed remarkable to me that I could nail the input and not get close to the target. At least both were strikes, which is what I was trying to throw.
From what I've gathered in my time practicing in the tech test and playing the actual game, the middle of the baseball can go to the edge of the PAR region. So there is additional landing area to compensate for even when getting a perfect Pinpoint input.
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@cbpm72_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
Just to respond to some of the comments above mentioning the size of the PAR changing for various reasons, confirming that I hit perfect on the meter twice but the curveballs didn't hit the PAR region at all. Not even close, so it's not even a case of getting the outside millimetre of the PAR. However, I have no idea what pitch confidence was at the time, but it just seemed remarkable to me that I could nail the input and not get close to the target. At least both were strikes, which is what I was trying to throw.
This is contrary to how it was promoted in the feature premiere. I’ve had some similar experiences. I’m going to have to layer the images just to be 100% sure.
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@cbpm72_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
Just to respond to some of the comments above mentioning the size of the PAR changing for various reasons, confirming that I hit perfect on the meter twice but the curveballs didn't hit the PAR region at all. Not even close, so it's not even a case of getting the outside millimetre of the PAR. However, I have no idea what pitch confidence was at the time, but it just seemed remarkable to me that I could nail the input and not get close to the target. At least both were strikes, which is what I was trying to throw.
When you say meter, you mean the actual meter input method? With meter you can only control early/late, while with PPP you control early/late and left/right. I didn’t see this info anywhere, but I’m guessing the accuracy part where you draw a circle or an up/down or quarter circle etc. probably influences the size of the PAR. 100% is the one you see when determining location, and it gets bigger as your % rate goes down.
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@yankblan_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
@cbpm72_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
Just to respond to some of the comments above mentioning the size of the PAR changing for various reasons, confirming that I hit perfect on the meter twice but the curveballs didn't hit the PAR region at all. Not even close, so it's not even a case of getting the outside millimetre of the PAR. However, I have no idea what pitch confidence was at the time, but it just seemed remarkable to me that I could nail the input and not get close to the target. At least both were strikes, which is what I was trying to throw.
When you say meter, you mean the actual meter input method? With meter you can only control early/late, while with PPP you control early/late and left/right. I didn’t see this info anywhere, but I’m guessing the accuracy part where you draw a circle or an up/down or quarter circle etc. probably influences the size of the PAR. 100% is the one you see when determining location, and it gets bigger as your % rate goes down.
PAR doesn't change with your input, it's a visual representation of where the ball can go with a perfect input. So if you don't hit perfect on the input, the ball can end up outside of the PAR region.
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So with meter if I'm aiming inside corner and hit perfect on the input, I might get outside corner (which is what I got -- twice?)... weird. But yeah, it was miles away from the PAR even though I hit the line smack dab both times.
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@wdk19_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
Hey all. I was curious about how BB/9 and individual pitch Control affect the new Pinpoint Pitching mechanic as well as the PAR (Perfect Accuracy Region). Since I directly asked SDS about what the attributes do and got no clear answer, I took matters into my own hands.
TL;DR: BB/9 affects PAR size. I do not know what individual pitch Control does.
I created 3 players and added them to a custom roster. Player A had 99 BB/9 and 99 control for each pitch. Player B had 99 BB/9 and 0 control for each pitch. Player C had 0 BB/9 and 99 control for each pitch. After entering Custom Practice, I compared PAR sizes between the three players. Players A and B had the same sized PARs, while Player C had much larger PARs. This lead me to deduce that increasing BB/9 will decrease PAR size for all pitches.
So what does individual pitch Control do? I don’t know. SDS’s answer to my question implies that it affects PAR size, but I found no visible evidence of that. I performed the Pinpoint mechanic for both Player A and B to see if perfect input was easier to get, or if non-perfect pitches end up closer to the target for Player A. These are subjective measures, but I didn’t notice a difference between the two that I would expect to notice with a difference of 99 Control attribute points.
So now I ask @Collin_SDS_PSN , can you clarify this for us? How exactly does pitch Control affect Pinpoint Pitching and the PAR? Did whoever answered my question here pre-launch lie? They said pitch Control would affect PAR size, but I am finding that it doesn’t. I- and I’m sure everyone here - feel that we deserve to know how attributes affect gameplay when picking which cards to use. The ball is in your court.
Also of note: PAR size changes based on what number pitch it is. Example: Player D and E are identical, except that Player D has a changeup as the number 5 pitch and Player E has a changeup as his number 1 or primary pitch. Player E’s changeup PAR was significantly smaller than Player D’s - even though both had 99 changeup Control. This doesn’t quite make sense to me. If Ricky Vaughn had a fastball primary pitch with 0 control and Greg Maddux had a fastball number 5 pitch with 99 control, Vaughn’s fastball would have a smaller PAR (making the erroneous assumption that both have the same BB/9). I don’t know about anyone else, but that doesn’t seem right to me.
P.S. if you made it this far, check out the latest episode of The Good/Okay Pocast
Fernando Valenzuela's PAR on his screwball is one of the smallest I've used online and his BB/9 is only 68. Very confusing.
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@cbpm72_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
So with meter if I'm aiming inside corner and hit perfect on the input, I might get outside corner (which is what I got -- twice?)... weird. But yeah, it was miles away from the PAR even though I hit the line smack dab both times.
Did you save a video? It's hard to believe you hit good on the meter and went completely out of the PAR zone.
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@beatybumpday_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
@wdk19_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
Hey all. I was curious about how BB/9 and individual pitch Control affect the new Pinpoint Pitching mechanic as well as the PAR (Perfect Accuracy Region). Since I directly asked SDS about what the attributes do and got no clear answer, I took matters into my own hands.
TL;DR: BB/9 affects PAR size. I do not know what individual pitch Control does.
I created 3 players and added them to a custom roster. Player A had 99 BB/9 and 99 control for each pitch. Player B had 99 BB/9 and 0 control for each pitch. Player C had 0 BB/9 and 99 control for each pitch. After entering Custom Practice, I compared PAR sizes between the three players. Players A and B had the same sized PARs, while Player C had much larger PARs. This lead me to deduce that increasing BB/9 will decrease PAR size for all pitches.
So what does individual pitch Control do? I don’t know. SDS’s answer to my question implies that it affects PAR size, but I found no visible evidence of that. I performed the Pinpoint mechanic for both Player A and B to see if perfect input was easier to get, or if non-perfect pitches end up closer to the target for Player A. These are subjective measures, but I didn’t notice a difference between the two that I would expect to notice with a difference of 99 Control attribute points.
So now I ask @Collin_SDS_PSN , can you clarify this for us? How exactly does pitch Control affect Pinpoint Pitching and the PAR? Did whoever answered my question here pre-launch lie? They said pitch Control would affect PAR size, but I am finding that it doesn’t. I- and I’m sure everyone here - feel that we deserve to know how attributes affect gameplay when picking which cards to use. The ball is in your court.
Also of note: PAR size changes based on what number pitch it is. Example: Player D and E are identical, except that Player D has a changeup as the number 5 pitch and Player E has a changeup as his number 1 or primary pitch. Player E’s changeup PAR was significantly smaller than Player D’s - even though both had 99 changeup Control. This doesn’t quite make sense to me. If Ricky Vaughn had a fastball primary pitch with 0 control and Greg Maddux had a fastball number 5 pitch with 99 control, Vaughn’s fastball would have a smaller PAR (making the erroneous assumption that both have the same BB/9). I don’t know about anyone else, but that doesn’t seem right to me.
P.S. if you made it this far, check out the latest episode of The Good/Okay Pocast
Fernando Valenzuela's PAR on his screwball is one of the smallest I've used online and his BB/9 is only 68. Very confusing.
It's his first pitch in the repitroire, that slot gets the smallest PAR size. If it was his 4th pitch it would be bigger.
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@chuck_dizzle29 said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
@cbpm72_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
So with meter if I'm aiming inside corner and hit perfect on the input, I might get outside corner (which is what I got -- twice?)... weird. But yeah, it was miles away from the PAR even though I hit the line smack dab both times.
Did you save a video? It's hard to believe you hit good on the meter and went completely out of the PAR zone.
No I didn't, sorry. I'm starting to doubt myself and wondering if the PAR circle was just a lot bigger than I remember so an inside could have been outside (if the circle was grazing the middle of the zone) but the reason it happened twice in a row is because I couldn't quite believe it the first time so I tried the same pitch again. I'm trying not to be obsessive about it but also sort of trying to notice if it does happen again but I can't say I've seen it repeat since those two back-to-back times.
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@wdk19_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
Hey all. I was curious about how BB/9 and individual pitch Control affect the new Pinpoint Pitching mechanic as well as the PAR (Perfect Accuracy Region). Since I directly asked SDS about what the attributes do and got no clear answer, I took matters into my own hands.
TL;DR: BB/9 affects PAR size. I do not know what individual pitch Control does.
I created 3 players and added them to a custom roster. Player A had 99 BB/9 and 99 control for each pitch. Player B had 99 BB/9 and 0 control for each pitch. Player C had 0 BB/9 and 99 control for each pitch. After entering Custom Practice, I compared PAR sizes between the three players. Players A and B had the same sized PARs, while Player C had much larger PARs. This lead me to deduce that increasing BB/9 will decrease PAR size for all pitches.
So what does individual pitch Control do? I don’t know. SDS’s answer to my question implies that it affects PAR size, but I found no visible evidence of that. I performed the Pinpoint mechanic for both Player A and B to see if perfect input was easier to get, or if non-perfect pitches end up closer to the target for Player A. These are subjective measures, but I didn’t notice a difference between the two that I would expect to notice with a difference of 99 Control attribute points.
So now I ask @Collin_SDS_PSN , can you clarify this for us? How exactly does pitch Control affect Pinpoint Pitching and the PAR? Did whoever answered my question here pre-launch lie? They said pitch Control would affect PAR size, but I am finding that it doesn’t. I- and I’m sure everyone here - feel that we deserve to know how attributes affect gameplay when picking which cards to use. The ball is in your court.
Also of note: PAR size changes based on what number pitch it is. Example: Player D and E are identical, except that Player D has a changeup as the number 5 pitch and Player E has a changeup as his number 1 or primary pitch. Player E’s changeup PAR was significantly smaller than Player D’s - even though both had 99 changeup Control. This doesn’t quite make sense to me. If Ricky Vaughn had a fastball primary pitch with 0 control and Greg Maddux had a fastball number 5 pitch with 99 control, Vaughn’s fastball would have a smaller PAR (making the erroneous assumption that both have the same BB/9). I don’t know about anyone else, but that doesn’t seem right to me.
P.S. if you made it this far, check out the latest episode of The Good/Okay Pocast
Did you factor in confidence level?
Also, are you using simulation mode or competitive mode?
Stats would hold more weight in simulation mode. -
@cbpm72_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
@chuck_dizzle29 said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
@cbpm72_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
So with meter if I'm aiming inside corner and hit perfect on the input, I might get outside corner (which is what I got -- twice?)... weird. But yeah, it was miles away from the PAR even though I hit the line smack dab both times.
Did you save a video? It's hard to believe you hit good on the meter and went completely out of the PAR zone.
No I didn't, sorry. I'm starting to doubt myself and wondering if the PAR circle was just a lot bigger than I remember so an inside could have been outside (if the circle was grazing the middle of the zone) but the reason it happened twice in a row is because I couldn't quite believe it the first time so I tried the same pitch again. I'm trying not to be obsessive about it but also sort of trying to notice if it does happen again but I can't say I've seen it repeat since those two back-to-back times.
I'm not trying to call you out or anything. I just save quick videos of something send off so I can go back and look later. Sometimes you get going so fast you don't lock in completely where the PAR ends
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@chuck_dizzle29 said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
@cbpm72_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
@chuck_dizzle29 said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
@cbpm72_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
So with meter if I'm aiming inside corner and hit perfect on the input, I might get outside corner (which is what I got -- twice?)... weird. But yeah, it was miles away from the PAR even though I hit the line smack dab both times.
Did you save a video? It's hard to believe you hit good on the meter and went completely out of the PAR zone.
No I didn't, sorry. I'm starting to doubt myself and wondering if the PAR circle was just a lot bigger than I remember so an inside could have been outside (if the circle was grazing the middle of the zone) but the reason it happened twice in a row is because I couldn't quite believe it the first time so I tried the same pitch again. I'm trying not to be obsessive about it but also sort of trying to notice if it does happen again but I can't say I've seen it repeat since those two back-to-back times.
I'm not trying to call you out or anything. I just save quick videos of something send off so I can go back and look later. Sometimes you get going so fast you don't lock in completely where the PAR ends
No it's fine, I don't have video evidence so I'll just keep an eye out and see if it happens again.
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@buddyhightower_xbl said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
@wdk19_psn said in Attribute Effect on the PAR (Research):
Hey all. I was curious about how BB/9 and individual pitch Control affect the new Pinpoint Pitching mechanic as well as the PAR (Perfect Accuracy Region). Since I directly asked SDS about what the attributes do and got no clear answer, I took matters into my own hands.
TL;DR: BB/9 affects PAR size. I do not know what individual pitch Control does.
I created 3 players and added them to a custom roster. Player A had 99 BB/9 and 99 control for each pitch. Player B had 99 BB/9 and 0 control for each pitch. Player C had 0 BB/9 and 99 control for each pitch. After entering Custom Practice, I compared PAR sizes between the three players. Players A and B had the same sized PARs, while Player C had much larger PARs. This lead me to deduce that increasing BB/9 will decrease PAR size for all pitches.
So what does individual pitch Control do? I don’t know. SDS’s answer to my question implies that it affects PAR size, but I found no visible evidence of that. I performed the Pinpoint mechanic for both Player A and B to see if perfect input was easier to get, or if non-perfect pitches end up closer to the target for Player A. These are subjective measures, but I didn’t notice a difference between the two that I would expect to notice with a difference of 99 Control attribute points.
So now I ask @Collin_SDS_PSN , can you clarify this for us? How exactly does pitch Control affect Pinpoint Pitching and the PAR? Did whoever answered my question here pre-launch lie? They said pitch Control would affect PAR size, but I am finding that it doesn’t. I- and I’m sure everyone here - feel that we deserve to know how attributes affect gameplay when picking which cards to use. The ball is in your court.
Also of note: PAR size changes based on what number pitch it is. Example: Player D and E are identical, except that Player D has a changeup as the number 5 pitch and Player E has a changeup as his number 1 or primary pitch. Player E’s changeup PAR was significantly smaller than Player D’s - even though both had 99 changeup Control. This doesn’t quite make sense to me. If Ricky Vaughn had a fastball primary pitch with 0 control and Greg Maddux had a fastball number 5 pitch with 99 control, Vaughn’s fastball would have a smaller PAR (making the erroneous assumption that both have the same BB/9). I don’t know about anyone else, but that doesn’t seem right to me.
P.S. if you made it this far, check out the latest episode of The Good/Okay Pocast
Did you factor in confidence level?
Also, are you using simulation mode or competitive mode?
Stats would hold more weight in simulation mode.Confidence level should have been comparable between the two created players. SDS has said that it affects PAR size, but they also said that about control and it doesn’t.
That’s a good point about simulation or competitive. I believe I made my default to be competitive. -
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