PSA: Marketplace
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@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@danthethriller said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
People just wanna sell quickly. I'm assuming you're upset because you're being undercut all the time. You could always hold onto your card(s) for a few hours when the traffic on it is lower and all the undercut cards have been sold.
I've heard this argument before, but how does it sell it faster? It's still first-come, first-serve. And there are certainly people that will still 1-stub you lower at lower prices.
Because by lowering a price by 10K for example, the second guy trying to sell is most likely to think "well that's a bit too much to drop, so I'll wait for a few minutes until this card is off the market".
Except that’s NOT happening, and people are chasing values down into the toilet.
It wasn’t like this in 19 or 20...did everyone get dumber?
It has always been like this, you just never saw it. People don't care about 10K on a 100K+ card, stubs are made pretty easily in this game.
You must be talking about player cards, because I stick to equipment, which used to be stable.
It definitely wasn’t like this, because I would literally do 100+ equipment transactions/day and not see this.
I can definitely see it happening with player cards, because they’re 1) rarer and 2) usually WAY more expensive.
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@danthethriller said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@danthethriller said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
People just wanna sell quickly. I'm assuming you're upset because you're being undercut all the time. You could always hold onto your card(s) for a few hours when the traffic on it is lower and all the undercut cards have been sold.
I've heard this argument before, but how does it sell it faster? It's still first-come, first-serve. And there are certainly people that will still 1-stub you lower at lower prices.
Because by lowering a price by 10K for example, the second guy trying to sell is most likely to think "well that's a bit too much to drop, so I'll wait for a few minutes until this card is off the market".
Except that’s NOT happening, and people are chasing values down into the toilet.
It wasn’t like this in 19 or 20...did everyone get dumber?
It has always been like this, you just never saw it. People don't care about 10K on a 100K+ card, stubs are made pretty easily in this game.
You must be talking about player cards, because I stick to equipment, which used to be stable.
It definitely wasn’t like this, because I would literally do 100+ equipment transactions/day and not see this.
I can definitely see it happening with player cards, because they’re 1) rarer and 2) usually WAY more expensive.
Either way, the whole undercutting phenomenon is nothing new and in my opinion people have every right to do so. If I have a gazillion items in my binder that I'm willing to sell for half the worth, that would be my decision wouldn't it? If that halts anyone's progress on the market, tough luck.
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I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
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@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
You don't know if the person doesn't have extra stubs.
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@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
You don't know if the person doesn't have extra stubs.
You conveniently ignored my answer to your question.
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@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
You don't know if the person doesn't have extra stubs.
You conveniently ignored my answer to your question.
I saw it. I just disagree with it. There have been plenty of examples of people cutting a sell price by, say, 1,000 stubs and then they themselves get underbid by a single stub.
I'm not new around here. I know how things work. I disagree with you. People that do it aren't necessarily selling their card any faster and they are still getting outbid sometimes.
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@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@danthethriller said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@danthethriller said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
People just wanna sell quickly. I'm assuming you're upset because you're being undercut all the time. You could always hold onto your card(s) for a few hours when the traffic on it is lower and all the undercut cards have been sold.
I've heard this argument before, but how does it sell it faster? It's still first-come, first-serve. And there are certainly people that will still 1-stub you lower at lower prices.
Because by lowering a price by 10K for example, the second guy trying to sell is most likely to think "well that's a bit too much to drop, so I'll wait for a few minutes until this card is off the market".
Except that’s NOT happening, and people are chasing values down into the toilet.
It wasn’t like this in 19 or 20...did everyone get dumber?
It has always been like this, you just never saw it. People don't care about 10K on a 100K+ card, stubs are made pretty easily in this game.
You must be talking about player cards, because I stick to equipment, which used to be stable.
It definitely wasn’t like this, because I would literally do 100+ equipment transactions/day and not see this.
I can definitely see it happening with player cards, because they’re 1) rarer and 2) usually WAY more expensive.
Either way, the whole undercutting phenomenon is nothing new and in my opinion people have every right to do so. If I have a gazillion items in my binder that I'm willing to sell for half the worth, that would be my decision wouldn't it? If that halts anyone's progress on the market, tough luck.
It’s your right.
It’s also not smart.
Both things can be true.
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@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
KD, this idea ignores the insane backlogs that cropped up, just last year, because there are limits on prices.
I still haven’t gotten Manny Machado in 20, because I’m behind 100s of bidders at 7,500 stubs lol.
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@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
You don't know if the person doesn't have extra stubs.
You conveniently ignored my answer to your question.
I saw it. I just disagree with it. There have been plenty of examples of people cutting a sell price by, say, 1,000 stubs and then they themselves get underbid by a single stub.
I'm not new around here. I know how things work. I disagree with you. People that do it aren't necessarily selling their card any faster and they are still getting outbid sometimes.
You can disagree but this is what literally happens. No matter how much you disagree with it. If you have a 50K card and you list it for 48K and then I come along and list it for 42,5K you'll most likely refresh a few times because you know that card will be gone soon and then you can relist your card for what you had in mind. Hence the evidence that undercutting by a significant amount does make you sell your card quicker, some people are actually lurking on this. They pick up those major undercuts and relist them to make a 1K or so profit. That's a solid flip. So yeah disagree all you like, you're wrong about it though.
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@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
You don't know if the person doesn't have extra stubs.
You conveniently ignored my answer to your question.
I saw it. I just disagree with it. There have been plenty of examples of people cutting a sell price by, say, 1,000 stubs and then they themselves get underbid by a single stub.
I'm not new around here. I know how things work. I disagree with you. People that do it aren't necessarily selling their card any faster and they are still getting outbid sometimes.
You can disagree but this is what literally happens. No matter how much you disagree with it. If you have a 50K card and you list it for 48K and then I come along and list it for 42,5K you'll most likely refresh a few times because you know that card will be gone soon and then you can relist your card for what you had in mind. Hence the evidence that undercutting by a significant amount does make you sell your card quicker, some people are actually lurking on this. They pick up those major undercuts and relist them to make a 1K or so profit. That's a solid flip. So yeah disagree all you like, you're wrong about it though.
Again, this is something that makes perfect sense for player cards, in my opinion.
You rarely find a glut of any Diamond player that will lead to downward supply pressure.
In that case, what you’re describing is usually what plays out.
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@danthethriller said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
You don't know if the person doesn't have extra stubs.
You conveniently ignored my answer to your question.
I saw it. I just disagree with it. There have been plenty of examples of people cutting a sell price by, say, 1,000 stubs and then they themselves get underbid by a single stub.
I'm not new around here. I know how things work. I disagree with you. People that do it aren't necessarily selling their card any faster and they are still getting outbid sometimes.
You can disagree but this is what literally happens. No matter how much you disagree with it. If you have a 50K card and you list it for 48K and then I come along and list it for 42,5K you'll most likely refresh a few times because you know that card will be gone soon and then you can relist your card for what you had in mind. Hence the evidence that undercutting by a significant amount does make you sell your card quicker, some people are actually lurking on this. They pick up those major undercuts and relist them to make a 1K or so profit. That's a solid flip. So yeah disagree all you like, you're wrong about it though.
Again, this is something that makes perfect sense for player cards, in my opinion.
You rarely find a glut of any Diamond player that will lead to downward supply pressure.
In that case, what you’re describing is usually what plays out.
In my experience, flipping items happens wherever the margins are worth it. Whether those are player cards, equipment or stadiums. I agree that it's not worth undercutting 10K on an equipment item, but the whole idea is to undercut juuuuuust enough to scare off everyone else who wants to sell the same item while still making a reasonable profit. So for a 40K equipment item, that could be like 5 or 6K, which again will most likely halt everyone with their listings until the item is sold.
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@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@danthethriller said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
You don't know if the person doesn't have extra stubs.
You conveniently ignored my answer to your question.
I saw it. I just disagree with it. There have been plenty of examples of people cutting a sell price by, say, 1,000 stubs and then they themselves get underbid by a single stub.
I'm not new around here. I know how things work. I disagree with you. People that do it aren't necessarily selling their card any faster and they are still getting outbid sometimes.
You can disagree but this is what literally happens. No matter how much you disagree with it. If you have a 50K card and you list it for 48K and then I come along and list it for 42,5K you'll most likely refresh a few times because you know that card will be gone soon and then you can relist your card for what you had in mind. Hence the evidence that undercutting by a significant amount does make you sell your card quicker, some people are actually lurking on this. They pick up those major undercuts and relist them to make a 1K or so profit. That's a solid flip. So yeah disagree all you like, you're wrong about it though.
Again, this is something that makes perfect sense for player cards, in my opinion.
You rarely find a glut of any Diamond player that will lead to downward supply pressure.
In that case, what you’re describing is usually what plays out.
In my experience, flipping items happens wherever the margins are worth it. Whether those are player cards, equipment or stadiums. I agree that it's not worth undercutting 10K on an equipment item, but the whole idea is to undercut juuuuuust enough to scare off everyone else who wants to sell the same item while still making a reasonable profit. So for a 40K equipment item, that could be like 5 or 6K, which again will most likely halt everyone with their listings until the item is sold.
I'll add one more thing to this and then I'll stop the debating because I've already stated my points and opinions: someone who is effective in flipping cards on the market values traffic over profit. So undercutting by significant amounts is not a problem at all, it's all about flipping as many cards as possible and for that you need to a lot of traffic which means you need to sell asap. That makes it worth the undercut sometimes.
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Guys imma buy and sell at 1000 more than the highest order now just for these fine folk
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@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@danthethriller said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
You don't know if the person doesn't have extra stubs.
You conveniently ignored my answer to your question.
I saw it. I just disagree with it. There have been plenty of examples of people cutting a sell price by, say, 1,000 stubs and then they themselves get underbid by a single stub.
I'm not new around here. I know how things work. I disagree with you. People that do it aren't necessarily selling their card any faster and they are still getting outbid sometimes.
You can disagree but this is what literally happens. No matter how much you disagree with it. If you have a 50K card and you list it for 48K and then I come along and list it for 42,5K you'll most likely refresh a few times because you know that card will be gone soon and then you can relist your card for what you had in mind. Hence the evidence that undercutting by a significant amount does make you sell your card quicker, some people are actually lurking on this. They pick up those major undercuts and relist them to make a 1K or so profit. That's a solid flip. So yeah disagree all you like, you're wrong about it though.
Again, this is something that makes perfect sense for player cards, in my opinion.
You rarely find a glut of any Diamond player that will lead to downward supply pressure.
In that case, what you’re describing is usually what plays out.
In my experience, flipping items happens wherever the margins are worth it. Whether those are player cards, equipment or stadiums. I agree that it's not worth undercutting 10K on an equipment item, but the whole idea is to undercut juuuuuust enough to scare off everyone else who wants to sell the same item while still making a reasonable profit. So for a 40K equipment item, that could be like 5 or 6K, which again will most likely halt everyone with their listings until the item is sold.
10000% agree.
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@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
You don't know if the person doesn't have extra stubs.
You conveniently ignored my answer to your question.
I saw it. I just disagree with it. There have been plenty of examples of people cutting a sell price by, say, 1,000 stubs and then they themselves get underbid by a single stub.
I'm not new around here. I know how things work. I disagree with you. People that do it aren't necessarily selling their card any faster and they are still getting outbid sometimes.
You can disagree but this is what literally happens. No matter how much you disagree with it. If you have a 50K card and you list it for 48K and then I come along and list it for 42,5K you'll most likely refresh a few times because you know that card will be gone soon and then you can relist your card for what you had in mind. Hence the evidence that undercutting by a significant amount does make you sell your card quicker, some people are actually lurking on this. They pick up those major undercuts and relist them to make a 1K or so profit. That's a solid flip. So yeah disagree all you like, you're wrong about it though.
Does it happen. Of course it does. Does it sometimes not work, absolutely. I know how it works. I've been around long enough. I'm not even necessarily talking about the guy watching it closely. With many cards, if you undercut/overcut by a lot, there's someone else entering the bidding/selling for the first time willing to one-stub you.
I get what you're saying, you're just not willing to budge and say that sometimes it ruins the profit potential for anyone. Of course, you feel like you're an arbiter of the forum and you have all the answers. There are absolutely times where someone undercuts low and they sell it in the same amount of time than if they had not undercut the process. I'm not talking about guys who are sitting there flipping. I bet flippers get more upset about being undercut by a lot than anyone else.
But you're not going to be bothered by this topic anymore. So that's fine. I'm kind of done with it too. I just find it funny that you felt you deserved a response after answering my original question.
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The margins are horrific right now.
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@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
You don't know if the person doesn't have extra stubs.
You conveniently ignored my answer to your question.
I saw it. I just disagree with it. There have been plenty of examples of people cutting a sell price by, say, 1,000 stubs and then they themselves get underbid by a single stub.
I'm not new around here. I know how things work. I disagree with you. People that do it aren't necessarily selling their card any faster and they are still getting outbid sometimes.
You can disagree but this is what literally happens. No matter how much you disagree with it. If you have a 50K card and you list it for 48K and then I come along and list it for 42,5K you'll most likely refresh a few times because you know that card will be gone soon and then you can relist your card for what you had in mind. Hence the evidence that undercutting by a significant amount does make you sell your card quicker, some people are actually lurking on this. They pick up those major undercuts and relist them to make a 1K or so profit. That's a solid flip. So yeah disagree all you like, you're wrong about it though.
Does it happen. Of course it does. Does it sometimes not work, absolutely. I know how it works. I've been around long enough. I'm not even necessarily talking about the guy watching it closely. With many cards, if you undercut/overcut by a lot, there's someone else entering the bidding/selling for the first time willing to one-stub you.
I get what you're saying, you're just not willing to budge and say that sometimes it ruins the profit potential for anyone. Of course, you feel like you're an arbiter of the forum and you have all the answers. There are absolutely times where someone undercuts low and they sell it in the same amount of time than if they had not undercut the process. I'm not talking about guys who are sitting there flipping. I bet flippers get more upset about being undercut by a lot than anyone else.
But you're not going to be bothered by this topic anymore. So that's fine. I'm kind of done with it too. I just find it funny that you felt you deserved a response after answering my original question.
No need to get personal. You asked me a question and I gave you an answer. Undercutting by a significant amount will get your card sold quicker. What's funny is that I had to even explain how that works.
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@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
You can disagree but this is what literally happens. No matter how much you disagree with it. If you have a 50K card and you list it for 48K and then I come along and list it for 42,5K you'll most likely refresh a few times because you know that card will be gone soon and then you can relist your card for what you had in mind.
This. Even if someone does undercut the 42.5 it isnt like everyone listed at 48k to 50k is gonna follow suit. Where as if you list at 47.9k all those others will undercut. Bottom line the card will sell faster.
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
With many cards, if you undercut/overcut by a lot, there's someone else entering the bidding/selling for the first time willing to one-stub you.
I get what you're saying, you're just not willingTrue, but not near as many people will, making it much faster to sell your card. All those other people posted at the higher gap arent all gonna come down and undercut like they will if you post for just a little bit under.
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@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@kdclemson_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
I do this because if someone has less stubs than me, they can’t outbid me and it saves me the trouble of having to always make sure I’m the lowest bid. If the card cost 10,500 and some dude has 10,000 but I have 11,000 I can make sure he can’t outbid me by doing something like 10,750 instead of 10,001
You don't know if the person doesn't have extra stubs.
You conveniently ignored my answer to your question.
I saw it. I just disagree with it. There have been plenty of examples of people cutting a sell price by, say, 1,000 stubs and then they themselves get underbid by a single stub.
I'm not new around here. I know how things work. I disagree with you. People that do it aren't necessarily selling their card any faster and they are still getting outbid sometimes.
You can disagree but this is what literally happens. No matter how much you disagree with it. If you have a 50K card and you list it for 48K and then I come along and list it for 42,5K you'll most likely refresh a few times because you know that card will be gone soon and then you can relist your card for what you had in mind. Hence the evidence that undercutting by a significant amount does make you sell your card quicker, some people are actually lurking on this. They pick up those major undercuts and relist them to make a 1K or so profit. That's a solid flip. So yeah disagree all you like, you're wrong about it though.
Does it happen. Of course it does. Does it sometimes not work, absolutely. I know how it works. I've been around long enough. I'm not even necessarily talking about the guy watching it closely. With many cards, if you undercut/overcut by a lot, there's someone else entering the bidding/selling for the first time willing to one-stub you.
I get what you're saying, you're just not willing to budge and say that sometimes it ruins the profit potential for anyone. Of course, you feel like you're an arbiter of the forum and you have all the answers. There are absolutely times where someone undercuts low and they sell it in the same amount of time than if they had not undercut the process. I'm not talking about guys who are sitting there flipping. I bet flippers get more upset about being undercut by a lot than anyone else.
But you're not going to be bothered by this topic anymore. So that's fine. I'm kind of done with it too. I just find it funny that you felt you deserved a response after answering my original question.
No need to get personal. You asked me a question and I gave you an answer. Undercutting by a significant amount will get your card sold quicker. What's funny is that I had to even explain how that works.
See that's the thing. You didn't have to explain that. I know it happens. But you aren't willing to admit that sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it just messes up the profit margin. It's gray, not black and white. You could have just said that is one reason (and I wouldn't have had an issue), but then you had to double-down and go in-depth like your answer is the only one that matters, and then go all high and mighty and ask why I didn't respond to your response. I was letting it go.
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@chuckclc_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
@raesone_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
You can disagree but this is what literally happens. No matter how much you disagree with it. If you have a 50K card and you list it for 48K and then I come along and list it for 42,5K you'll most likely refresh a few times because you know that card will be gone soon and then you can relist your card for what you had in mind.
This. Even if someone does undercut the 42.5 it isnt like everyone listed at 48k to 50k is gonna follow suit. Where as if you list at 47.9k all those others will undercut. Bottom line the card will sell faster.
@bhall09_psn said in PSA: Marketplace:
With many cards, if you undercut/overcut by a lot, there's someone else entering the bidding/selling for the first time willing to one-stub you.
I get what you're saying, you're just not willingTrue, but not near as many people will, making it much faster to sell your card. All those other people posted at the higher gap arent all gonna come down and undercut like they will if you post for just a little bit under.
You're assuming that everyone with a close bid will come back on and undercut while also assuming that it's less likely that new people will come on and under/overbid your already cut margin. I would say it's closer to even on both sides of that topic. Again, it's a gray area, not black and white. It happens both ways.
Whatever, it is what it is. In my opinion, and that of the original poster, that it would be a better place if we all one-stubbed it than severely undercutting/overcutting margins.
