Pitchers batting 8th...???
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I've seen many people putting their pitchers batting at the 8th position... What's the reason behind that...?
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@devil_poussinet said in Pitchers batting 8th...???:
I've seen many people putting their pitchers batting at the 8th position... What's the reason behind that...?
Long story, but the short version is that they're mimicking a strategy that Tony La Russa ran out there with some frequency about 20 years ago (and Joe Maddon more recently, but it really goes back to the early 1900s). Conventional wisdom is that the pitcher should bat 9th, being the weakest hitter, and that ensures that position has the least amount of at-bats. When La Russa tried it again, statisticians had determined that there is a small advantage in runs scored per 162 games if the pitcher hit 8th (reasoning that the 9th batter could turn the lineup over for better hitters and be on base for ensuing hits).
That statistical advantage turns out to be something like 0.5 runs per 162 games (runs, not wins), so really doesn't matter, but that's La Russa and Maddon for you. So it's kids trying to imitate old guys who are trying to be cool and different.
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Yes, and I recall it being said it's like having a double lead off batter or something.
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It is an attempt to balance two conflicting goals: minimizing the number of plate appearances the pitcher makes, and putting more runners on base for the productive hitters at the top of the lineup.
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Ok thanks guys!! I don't really think thats its an effective strategy but people can surely do whatever they want! I also tought that they were trying to fool people like if you don't pay attention and pitch to 8th batter as if he was a position player or DH....
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In reality after the first inning really doesn't matter. Once each new inning starts you have someone from a different spot in the lineup batting first, and after the inevitable parade of relief pitchers, pinch hitters and double switches the lineup rarely resembles what it was after pitch number one.
I wonder how many games LaRussa and Maddon lost trying to prove how much smarter they are than everyone else? Maddon ran the Cubs in games 6 and 7 like a manager trying not to lose and nearly did.
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A guy I played today did that and he had runners in scoring position at the time I walked 7th batter and struck his pitcher out twice
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@the_joneser_psn said in Pitchers batting 8th...???:
@devil_poussinet said in Pitchers batting 8th...???:
I've seen many people putting their pitchers batting at the 8th position... What's the reason behind that...?
Long story, but the short version is that they're mimicking a strategy that Tony La Russa ran out there with some frequency about 20 years ago (and Joe Maddon more recently, but it really goes back to the early 1900s). Conventional wisdom is that the pitcher should bat 9th, being the weakest hitter, and that ensures that position has the least amount of at-bats. When La Russa tried it again, statisticians had determined that there is a small advantage in runs scored per 162 games if the pitcher hit 8th (reasoning that the 9th batter could turn the lineup over for better hitters and be on base for ensuing hits).
That statistical advantage turns out to be something like 0.5 runs per 162 games (runs, not wins), so really doesn't matter, but that's La Russa and Maddon for you. So it's kids trying to imitate old guys who are trying to be cool and different.
He was trying to get McGuire more at bats during his home run season as well
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A viable strategy in a 3 inn game would be to put your pitcher batting higher just because you know you will be PH in his spot when due up. But 7th or 8th is probably as high as you want to put him in case you are the away team, because if you get a little first inning rally going you won't be able to PH.
But 9 inn game I would leave him 9th unless using an opener for just 1 or 2 innings
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@thegoaler_psn said in Pitchers batting 8th...???:
Yes, and I recall it being said it's like having a double lead off batter or something.
I think this makes sense if you have a somewhat weak batter who can absolutely fly on the basepaths (Billy Hamilton being the obvious example). You put that guy 9th, and if he happens to get on, then you are in business. But in Diamond Dynasty, I don't think it matters. Lots of people just stack the top 2 positions with guys that can hit as well as run the bases.
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@chuckclc_mlbts said in Pitchers batting 8th...???:
A viable strategy in a 3 inn game would be to put your pitcher batting higher just because you know you will be PH in his spot when due up. But 7th or 8th is probably as high as you want to put him in case you are the away team, because if you get a little first inning rally going you won't be able to PH.
But 9 inn game I would leave him 9th unless using an opener for just 1 or 2 innings
This. In 3 inning games, I’d rather have a player of my choosing come in the second to PH than just a weaker hitting position player. By the time the third comes around, I’ll empty the bench if need to for matchup to tie the game. Also, it throws a wrench in the works of the opponent in these short games that want to bring in a reliever at this point due to stamina issues.
Of course you need depth and positional flexibility to pull this off. It’s also a moot point if your starting lineup has all 8 fielders who mash. I’ve had better success with this than the traditional method in short games. It’s worth a shot if you’re bored or in a slump.
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Just played somebody batting Ohtani 8th, he was between two lefty killers, it makes sense in this case scenario
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@devil_poussinet said in Pitchers batting 8th...???:
I've seen many people putting their pitchers batting at the 8th position... What's the reason behind that...?
For the purposes of this specific video game I do it when grinding vs CPU to get another bat in the lineup sooner rather than later. Another reason is if you decide to leave your pitcher in you can sacrifice bunt with him with nobody out (if your 7th batter leads off vs sacrificing with 1 out). Obviously this situation isn't guaranteed to happen 100% of the time.
All the other theories apply as well such as "second leadoff"...especially if you have a power-hitting leadoff guy in your lineup vs a traditional contact/speed leadoff guy in your lineup... for example Kyle Schwarber (despite his HR Derby performance), Aaron Judge, etc.
Outside of using an Ohtani pitcher card that can hit I can't see myself moving the pitcher out of the 9 hole vs other humans (unless I forget to change my lineup) but yeah I'd imagine in-game there's no real advantage to hitting your pitcher anywhere else in the order besides 9th (with the exception of Ohtani - and maybe select others) outside of pinch hitting for your pitcher earlier.
Speaking of which I imagine everyone will be rejoicing when we get the DH in Diamond Dynasty next year.
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In real baseball the strategy is just simply bat the pitcher 8th to allow a better chance for your top of the order guys to have runners on base. Like said above though... the actual numbers of it paying off are fractional so it really isn't much of a strategy. I would never do it in a videogame because my thinking on this is I want my pitcher spot (9 spot) to be the least likely to bat. Through multiple games your 9 spot obviously will have less AB than any other batters.
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